This is from another thread -

Ros often assists our members on holidaytruths and gives free advice. Here is a little of her profile:-

Ros Fernihough has specialised in travel law claims since dealing with her own claim following a disastrous holiday in the Dominican Republic in 1993. She does not deal with any other area of law.

She is well-known by all the major tour operators and airlines, has appeared on all major television consumer programmes, gives regular advice to consumers on radio programmes, has written articles for many newspapers and journals and has an extremely good record of successfully negotiating claims.

TEL. NO. 0845 2262332 (local) or 01922 621114

FAX NO. 01922 629042

I suggest you telephone her office and get advice. In addition to anything else you need to know who should make the complaint, because I'm certain it will have to be the lead name.

You weren't there, it's as simple as that, but you can do the paperwork for her to sign.

Best of luck,

Peter

Would you have any come back through health and safety regarding sleeping 4 people in a studio meant for no more than 3 ?

This thread about Kosmar is making me quit cross. I have only ever used them once, but never again after reading this.

Peter has advised contacting Ros and that is the best approach.

UK Health & Safety regulations apply in the UK

Whilst it might be considered "Best Practice" that a TO should endeavour to apply those standards where possible, it is not incumbent on them to do so.

The problem here is not H&S - it is a failure to provide the accommodation that was contracted.

fwh

it is a failure to provide the accommodation that was contracted.

That's how I see it as well, they didn't get what they paid for.
However, legal advice is required regarding what to claim for and what is a reasonable level of compensation based on the price difference between a 2 bed apartment - v - a studio, plus the partly spoilt holiday, disappointment, aggravation and just plain mucking about the complainants have had to put up with.

Go get 'em, with Ros in their corner!

Peter

So just to set this straight in my own mind. A british based travel agent would not have to abide by any health and safety laws on property they rent out abroad. Only in the UK?

Logic suggests they have to comply with local regulations only, don't see how UK Health & Safety Regs could come into it.

It is however the sort of question it would be best to ask a qualified person such as Ros.

Peter

There is a duty of care that applies on behalf of anyone. Even you and I. As Peter says ask someone such as Ros for a legal opinion.

UK law can only apply in the UK - we used to have an empire but no longer.

Most countries will have their own version of H&S and other laws but you should consider that their version and ours will not always coincide. An example would be drink/drive laws. Different countries have their own rules. Some have higher limits and others have lower - zero in some cases.

Raising H&S only muddies the water. The accommodation was not suitable or adequate for the number of occupants. That is the complaint. Raising H&S regulations that apply in one country yet not another will only confuse the issue.

The best advice has already been given - talk to Ros - all other comments are personal opinions. They count for nothing in a court of law.

fwh

I'd read the confirmation paperwork closely. If it states that you've booked a two bedroom apartment and that is not what the girls were allocated then it seems to me to be a case of breach of contract.

There's a clear difference between a one-bedroom apartment (often called studio apartments) and a two-bedroom apartment.

Did the girls complete a complaint form whilst in the resort ?

Had I been in that position I would have suggested an immediate return flight home should be provided by Kosmar with a full refund within a couple of hours of arrival and being allocated sub-standard accomm. The chances are the tour operator would not be able to organise such a repatriation immed. if at all and they would be desperate to avoid such a full refund which, in my opinion, you would be within your rights to seek.

This action would however strengthen your position when you eventually return as you can refer to the written request made at the time of complaint right at the outset with the rep. in resport.

Naturally, if you don't really want to return then you need to be careful in demanding such a return - best to phrase it as a request and if they agree then perhaps retract slightly and offer to "see how it goes".

The T.op. is, at the end of the day, playing the same brinkmanship game. There's a reason why the booked accomm. is not available and very likely it's due to overbooking. You'll never find that out of course. The T.Op. is hoping that the passengers will accept what is offered as this saves them effort and money. Trying to seek recompense afterwards is usually easier if you made a serious and documented complaint at the outset.

Avoid the H&S route. Keep it simple, claim for Kosmar's failure to provide the product as stated. Ring Ros.

Mike

There's a clear difference between a one-bedroom apartment (often called studio apartments) and a two-bedroom apartment.

Minor point Mike, there is a difference between a studio and a one-bedroomed apartment - in a studio there is just one room with beds, living room and kitchen area all-in-one. A one-bedroomed apartment implies a separate bedroom..

Also, most holiday accommodation have the room occupancy list pinned up behind the door.

It shows the official rating (country's own rating system applies and so may be different to the brochured rating) and also the maximum mumber of guests allowed to occupy the room.

Always a good idea to photograph it (most of our clients used to steal them and send them to us by mail with their complaint letter!)

Regards
Cyprus100

Thanks for the correction MariaH. Your info. makes the difference between a studio and a two-bedroomed apartment even greater.

Interesting discussion on the difference between a studio and a one-bedroomed apartment.

We booked a 'Studio' apartment (Olympic Holidays definition) and we had a separate bedroom, no living room but the kitchen was a separate room.

Polly

I think the room issue is an interesting one as it is what decides on when underbed kicks in.

Studios traditionally for 2-3 people (1 room with 2 or 3 beds in)
1 bedroom apartments for 4 (one room with twin/double bed/s and 2 bed in the living/kitchen area)
2 bedrooms for 6 (two rooms with twin/double bed/s and 2 beds in the living/kitchen area)

It's often difficult to work out the costings in the most favourable way when not all the group are adults, sometimes to avoid significant under occupancy charges it's better to pay for at least one child as an adult.

If the girls had booked a 2 bed rather than a 1 bed they may have already paid under occupancy so their claim for compensation should be strengthened.

Oh and Prettypollycat - i think you did well out of Olympic! But they do try and give people the best room they can.

i also booked a studio last year with olympic and we had a separate kitchen

Thanks for all of the replies, I have contacted Ros, as advised. and I am now in the process of putting together my letter of complaint. We shall see what happens.

The studio was just one room, they had to put in extra beds, the kitchen was in the same room. They had booked an apartment with 2 seperate bedrooms.

Well done 'eevie', and thanks for letting us know.

You make it worth while trying to assist on this forum.

Best of luck, although with Ros on your side 'luck' won't come into it!

Peter

I have recently received a letter from Kosmar offering £240 in compensation. The total holiday cost for 4 was £1260. They have worked out this amount as half the charge for accomm for 4 nights plus a full day's costs in recognition of holiday time lost during moves. This means my daughter would receive £60.

I don't feel this is a fair amount as they were in resort for 7 days, 1 day in inferior accomm they were transferred out to and 6 days squashed in a studio for 2, so surely they should be refunded half the charge for accomm for 6 nights?

I have received forms from Ros, but have not done anything with them yet as I haver only just returned from holiday myself (a wonderful, sunny 2 weeks in the south of France care of Camping Life). Given the costs involved using this service, (don't know what these will be) I am not sure the effort/costs will be justified in any extra compensation received. Although I am doing this on behalf of all of the party my interest in only 25%.

Does anyone have any idea of how much compensation would be a reasonable amount? I am considering writing back to Kosmar and requesting they increase compensation to reflect the unsuitable accommodation. Would this affect what they have already offered ?

Thanks

Does anyone have any idea of how much compensation would be a reasonable amount?

I urge you consult with Ros, you are asking questions we amateurs cannot answer. I think Ros operates on a very reasonable no win no fee, and if you do win a commission basis.

Peter

Does anyone have any idea of how much compensation would be a reasonable amount? I am considering writing back to Kosmar and requesting they increase compensation to reflect the unsuitable accommodation. Would this affect what they have already offered ?

How much compensation you are willing to accept is your decision. We can only express a personal opinion.

My personal opinion is that you should put this in the hands of a professional such as Ros. She will extract the best deal that she can for you.

If you do not wish to pay someone to act for you then DIY - they may increase the offer.

fwh