Just come back from holiday and was really annoyed to find out that we couldn't laze in the pool on lilos we purchased in the hotel shop. It wasn't until we got into the pool with them that we were told ! Now that's an absolute joke. Where does it state that in the brochures or in the description on tour operators websites? Christ knows how much money is wasted by families.
I can understand that there are some irresponsible louts around but considering it was a large pool with a lifeguard to supervise & prevent any stupidity it seems crazy that this enjoyable type of relaxation has been take away from those of us who just want to float gently in a pool rather than roast on a sunbed.
No such ban in Turkey. Is it just the Spanish who have come up with this insane rule?
Please don't respond with 'it's for health & safety reasons' or 'someone might get hurt'. More people end up in hospital on holiday through slipping on bathroom tiled floors and through drink induced frollicking yet would they ban the latter. Of course not because it is a money spinner!
Sorry about the rant but it infuriates me that the fun is taken away by overprotectiveness which will eventually result in a universe of quivering neurotics.
It could be for other reasons too. Perhaps other guests have complained about the pool being cluttered with people lying around on lilos and restricting the opportunities for those who like to swim rather than just wallow in the pool? Or perhaps too many people wanted to do it meaning that families with kids couldn't play around in the shallow water? Having experienced being complained about by a lilo floater because in swimming and playing around in the pool my nieces were splashing water over her and getting her hair wet, I have some sympathy with the view that the place to lie around is on a sunbed on the poolside and not on a lilo in the pool.
SM
SM
hayesdays,
Welcome onboard
Welcome to the modern litigious world that we live in! That's pretty much the reason these bans exists as well as keeping the peace. While I agree it's over the top, I've heard of many resorts / hotels where the use of inflatables is banned in pools. There are reasons behind bans though. While the vast majority of those using them don't cause a problem, you do get those that get silly and spoil it for the rest of the guests and ban them to keep the peace. I've no problem with them personally as most people are sensible, but in a family hotel with children around, the boisterous ones that insist on diving and jumping on them that can end up with inflatables going in every direction, they've spoilt it for the rest of us. If you have too many, it can make it difficult to swim or in smaller pools, clutter the pool too much.
I don't think you can expect travel companies to put something like this in brouchures, but it should be clearly stated on the pool rules, normally a board adjacent to the pool.
Darren
Welcome onboard
hayesdays wrote:Please don't respond with 'it's for health & safety reasons' or 'someone might get hurt'
Welcome to the modern litigious world that we live in! That's pretty much the reason these bans exists as well as keeping the peace. While I agree it's over the top, I've heard of many resorts / hotels where the use of inflatables is banned in pools. There are reasons behind bans though. While the vast majority of those using them don't cause a problem, you do get those that get silly and spoil it for the rest of the guests and ban them to keep the peace. I've no problem with them personally as most people are sensible, but in a family hotel with children around, the boisterous ones that insist on diving and jumping on them that can end up with inflatables going in every direction, they've spoilt it for the rest of us. If you have too many, it can make it difficult to swim or in smaller pools, clutter the pool too much.
I don't think you can expect travel companies to put something like this in brouchures, but it should be clearly stated on the pool rules, normally a board adjacent to the pool.
Darren
I don't see why guests wouldve complained. There's a pool for those who want peace and quiet, a childrens pool and a main pool where activities take place. In the 10 yrs Ive been going there, I've never seen more that 20 people in the water at any given time and no more than 5 lilos. I swim 40 lengths per day and no-one has ever impeded me. There are various entry points around the pool so it's not that anyone with a lilo would have to be in the shallow end. It wouldn't make a difference anyway as the pool is so vast.
Hotels would do better to employ more Lifeguards who are vigilant. Most I've witnessed sit there more interested in eye candy.
Children usually have their own pool and shouldn't be unsupervised in a main pool under 13 yrs of age, shallow or not! It comes down to parental responsibility to ensure they behave appropriately and don't upset anyone. As for someone worrying about getting one's hair wet....what the hell are they doing in a pool? Have they not heard of a bathing cap either?
The reason our kids of today are bored, obese, in trouble and resort to couch potato computing is because of restriction on their play. No conkers, British bulldog or leapfrog in schools, caging around trees to prevent any climbing. Even playgrounds have rubberised flooring to prevent a teensy weensy graze.
The world has gone OTT on health & safety to the expense of fun!
Hotels would do better to employ more Lifeguards who are vigilant. Most I've witnessed sit there more interested in eye candy.
Children usually have their own pool and shouldn't be unsupervised in a main pool under 13 yrs of age, shallow or not! It comes down to parental responsibility to ensure they behave appropriately and don't upset anyone. As for someone worrying about getting one's hair wet....what the hell are they doing in a pool? Have they not heard of a bathing cap either?
The reason our kids of today are bored, obese, in trouble and resort to couch potato computing is because of restriction on their play. No conkers, British bulldog or leapfrog in schools, caging around trees to prevent any climbing. Even playgrounds have rubberised flooring to prevent a teensy weensy graze.
The world has gone OTT on health & safety to the expense of fun!
I don't think you can expect travel companies to put something like this in brouchures, but it should be clearly stated on the pool rules, normally a board adjacent to the pool.
Darren
Not much good Darren if you buy from the hotel shop before going to the pool.
Our pools are a walk from the main hotel and as weve been there so many times it was unexpected. Not on the board rules either. just a piece of paper stuck on a post at the snack bar.
hayesdays,
Did you take it up with hotel management or enquire as to why the restrictions have been put in place since you were there the previous time? Maybe if people objected to the rules and had a reasonable argument against them and it would prevent return visits, they would review the situation? I don't think these rules are easily come by though. You have to consider everyone who uses the pool / hotel and if the majority don't want them or if there have been complaints or other problems, the management team have taken that decision for the good of the hotel.
Darren
Did you take it up with hotel management or enquire as to why the restrictions have been put in place since you were there the previous time? Maybe if people objected to the rules and had a reasonable argument against them and it would prevent return visits, they would review the situation? I don't think these rules are easily come by though. You have to consider everyone who uses the pool / hotel and if the majority don't want them or if there have been complaints or other problems, the management team have taken that decision for the good of the hotel.
Darren
Which hotel is it?
Oh my, hayesdays, I hope having a rant here is helping you feel better about not being able to use your lilo in the pool
Just to be clear, my nieces were being supervised - their father and I were in the pool with them. There was only one pool and they were behaving appropriately doing what kids do in a pool, swimming around and learning how to do crawl - hence the higher level of water being splashed around. And, yes, I agree what was someone who didn't want to get wet hair doing in a pool but it didn't stop her remonstrating with my brother and I!
And I agree with much of what you say about kids activities being curtailed but this is not because of H&S becoming OTT but because parents are now more litigious and likely to go to court. As an ex-youth worker I'm amazed that anybody still does outdoor activities with kids anymore - not because of H&S but because of the risk of being sued by parents. The rules came about because of schools and youth clubs etc taking action to protect staff from being taken to court. Some parents can't see the difference between accidents that have happened because of negligence and accidents that have happened despite staff taking all reasonable precautions to keep kids safe.
SM
Just to be clear, my nieces were being supervised - their father and I were in the pool with them. There was only one pool and they were behaving appropriately doing what kids do in a pool, swimming around and learning how to do crawl - hence the higher level of water being splashed around. And, yes, I agree what was someone who didn't want to get wet hair doing in a pool but it didn't stop her remonstrating with my brother and I!
And I agree with much of what you say about kids activities being curtailed but this is not because of H&S becoming OTT but because parents are now more litigious and likely to go to court. As an ex-youth worker I'm amazed that anybody still does outdoor activities with kids anymore - not because of H&S but because of the risk of being sued by parents. The rules came about because of schools and youth clubs etc taking action to protect staff from being taken to court. Some parents can't see the difference between accidents that have happened because of negligence and accidents that have happened despite staff taking all reasonable precautions to keep kids safe.
SM
Please don't respond with 'it's for health & safety reasons' or 'someone might get hurt'.
Whether you like it or not, it is both for safety reasons and not being sued. Someone got more than just hurt, a child drowned in Spain because the lifeguard couldn't see the child was in difficulties, due to the 'sea' of lilos obstructing his view.
There have also been reported cases of children on a lilo being drifted from the shallow end into the deep end, by the 'current' created by other boisterous pool users, and finally, the more lilos floating on the water, the less area you have to surface as a swimmer.
These rules are not made up to spoil your enjoyment, unfortunately it takes an accident or fatality to look at safety around pools, I'm old enough to remember when pools had no depth markings and it took someone to dive into a pool, which was in fact the shallow end, and he sustained a fractured skull and was paralysed before it became law that all pools have to have the depths marked.
The shops sell lilos because folks buy them for various reasons and not necessarily to use in the pool. Some buy them instead of paying for a sunbed on the beach and to give themselves more flexibility. Some buy them to make a hard sunbed more comfortable, and some buy them to use in the big swimming pool called the sea.!
Sanji
Oh Dear, I don't think Hayesdays is quite getting the responses hoped for! ;)...... hope he/she is not scared off !
usually there is room for both inflatables and swimmers but I guess with the furore over the child drowning a couple of weeks ago that these restrictions have been brought in by the owners who run the risk of being prosecuted perhaps.
My wife and I usually use small hotels which only have a small pool and if lots use inflatables then it is difficult to get in for a swim, If you have a family of two adults with a lilo each and a couple of kids with blow up crocodiles or sharks etc they do take up a lot of room..... multiply that by a few families and then add in the people with beach balls etc in the pool.
edited to wonder
if the pool was a walk away wasn't there any other pools that could be used?
Usually pools are open to anyone buying drinks from the pool bar.
usually there is room for both inflatables and swimmers but I guess with the furore over the child drowning a couple of weeks ago that these restrictions have been brought in by the owners who run the risk of being prosecuted perhaps.
My wife and I usually use small hotels which only have a small pool and if lots use inflatables then it is difficult to get in for a swim, If you have a family of two adults with a lilo each and a couple of kids with blow up crocodiles or sharks etc they do take up a lot of room..... multiply that by a few families and then add in the people with beach balls etc in the pool.
edited to wonder
if the pool was a walk away wasn't there any other pools that could be used?
Usually pools are open to anyone buying drinks from the pool bar.
Quote Whether you like it or not, it is both for safety reasons and not being sued. Someone got more than just hurt, a child drowned in Spain because the lifeguard couldn't see the child was in difficulties, due to the 'sea' of lilos obstructing his view.
I beg to correct you but the facts are that both parents cleared off to snack bar to get a drink and left a 5 yr old alone in a pool. Another lad also 5 drowned because he too was left unsupervised.
Much as it is tragic; clearly cases of irresponsibility by parents/carers.
Quote There have also been reported cases of children on a lilo being drifted from the shallow end into the deep end, by the 'current' created by other boisterous pool users, and finally, the more lilos floating on the water, the less area you have to surface as a swimmer.
Again parental stupidity; kids should not be in a pool like that unsupervised. I'm not sure what size pools you are used to but I have yet to experience such a busy one that you can't surface because of lilos!
Quote These rules are not made up to spoil your enjoyment, unfortunately it takes an accident or fatality to look at safety around pools, I'm old enough to remember when pools had no depth markings and it took someone to dive into a pool, which was in fact the shallow end, and he sustained a fractured skull and was paralysed before it became law that all pools have to have the depths marked.
People still do it in pools and off piers regardless of rules. Nothing will curb show offs and risk takers. What about flumes? Are they to be banned too?
As said previously more injuries and fatalities happen on holiday that are purely mishaps and alcohol related but that's not banned.
Even without lilos people drown; moreso in the (quote) big pool - the sea than anywhere.
You will find that hotels have disclaimers so hardly likely they will get sued. It's a safeguaring issue if a parent/carer puts their child at risk so social services will no douibt be knocking at their door. i know because I hold a position in that field.
SMa: as an ex youth worker you must be aware that anyone supervising children on outdoor activities would undertake a risk assessment and the ratio of staff to kids is enough to have witnesses to any accidents or fatalities. It's impossible to prevent things happening so like any bad accident/death it has to be report/investigated. I do feel for our youth/connexions and other organisations workers that it is such a rigmarole to take kids out, even for a simple walk.
We face risks in everyday life by just crossing the road. How many people actually walk a few yards to use a pedestrian crossing when the road is clear? Bloody ridiculous where I live. 5 pelican/pedestrian crossings within 100m of each other outside a University. And guess what - students don't wait to use them!
I've come up with an easy solution. 3 pools: one for kids, one for those who don't like getting splashed or their hair wet and one for those of us who want to return to the good old times of fun.
Perhaps someone will tell me where I can take my family on holiday where lilos are not banned.
:0)
I beg to correct you but the facts are that both parents cleared off to snack bar to get a drink and left a 5 yr old alone in a pool. Another lad also 5 drowned because he too was left unsupervised.
Much as it is tragic; clearly cases of irresponsibility by parents/carers.
Quote There have also been reported cases of children on a lilo being drifted from the shallow end into the deep end, by the 'current' created by other boisterous pool users, and finally, the more lilos floating on the water, the less area you have to surface as a swimmer.
Again parental stupidity; kids should not be in a pool like that unsupervised. I'm not sure what size pools you are used to but I have yet to experience such a busy one that you can't surface because of lilos!
Quote These rules are not made up to spoil your enjoyment, unfortunately it takes an accident or fatality to look at safety around pools, I'm old enough to remember when pools had no depth markings and it took someone to dive into a pool, which was in fact the shallow end, and he sustained a fractured skull and was paralysed before it became law that all pools have to have the depths marked.
People still do it in pools and off piers regardless of rules. Nothing will curb show offs and risk takers. What about flumes? Are they to be banned too?
As said previously more injuries and fatalities happen on holiday that are purely mishaps and alcohol related but that's not banned.
Even without lilos people drown; moreso in the (quote) big pool - the sea than anywhere.
You will find that hotels have disclaimers so hardly likely they will get sued. It's a safeguaring issue if a parent/carer puts their child at risk so social services will no douibt be knocking at their door. i know because I hold a position in that field.
SMa: as an ex youth worker you must be aware that anyone supervising children on outdoor activities would undertake a risk assessment and the ratio of staff to kids is enough to have witnesses to any accidents or fatalities. It's impossible to prevent things happening so like any bad accident/death it has to be report/investigated. I do feel for our youth/connexions and other organisations workers that it is such a rigmarole to take kids out, even for a simple walk.
We face risks in everyday life by just crossing the road. How many people actually walk a few yards to use a pedestrian crossing when the road is clear? Bloody ridiculous where I live. 5 pelican/pedestrian crossings within 100m of each other outside a University. And guess what - students don't wait to use them!
I've come up with an easy solution. 3 pools: one for kids, one for those who don't like getting splashed or their hair wet and one for those of us who want to return to the good old times of fun.
Perhaps someone will tell me where I can take my family on holiday where lilos are not banned.
:0)
Ha ha Del. I'm all male (last time I looked) and don't get scared off by words. I hold a post where I have to deal with challenges daily and believe me they are at a high level with a legal team so nothing as simple as a lilo would phaze me.
There are 3 pools, and 5 jacuzzis all located in same area. As said we've been holidaying there for the past 10 yrs and after checking in our rooms always pop into the hotel shop in reception to buy lilos and a ball then head off to the pool area.
Pool 1: kids pool
Pool 2: quiet pool, decent size
Pool 3: massive (would take all guests from 300 rooms to pack it)
We weren't the only people who have spent 12 euros on each lilo only to have wasted money. We are not keen on going to the beach when we are AI and have all amenities/refreshments that are paid for and to hand.
There are 3 pools, and 5 jacuzzis all located in same area. As said we've been holidaying there for the past 10 yrs and after checking in our rooms always pop into the hotel shop in reception to buy lilos and a ball then head off to the pool area.
Pool 1: kids pool
Pool 2: quiet pool, decent size
Pool 3: massive (would take all guests from 300 rooms to pack it)
We weren't the only people who have spent 12 euros on each lilo only to have wasted money. We are not keen on going to the beach when we are AI and have all amenities/refreshments that are paid for and to hand.
-
Edited by
hayesdays
2013-05-29 16:01:46
hayesdays,
While I respect your opinions and I agree with some of your statement, can I ask if you raised them with hotel management before you departed? We can all say what we like here, but unless customer opinion and feedback is given to hoteliers, things won't change.
Darren
While I respect your opinions and I agree with some of your statement, can I ask if you raised them with hotel management before you departed? We can all say what we like here, but unless customer opinion and feedback is given to hoteliers, things won't change.
Darren
hayesdays wrote:SMa: as an ex youth worker you must be aware that anyone supervising children on outdoor activities would undertake a risk assessment and the ratio of staff to kids is enough to have witnesses to any accidents or fatalities. It's impossible to prevent things happening so like any bad accident/death it has to be report/investigated. I do feel for our youth/connexions and other organisations workers that it is such a rigmarole to take kids out, even for a simple 0)
I know that, you know that but it hasn't stopped parents from suing. For example, I know one particular case that resulted in policy being changed for the authority that I previously worked for. The staff did everything exactly as they should have done from the risk assessment before they even went, to then taking the decision to abandon a river scramble halfway through as soon as it started to rain heavily because they feared the possibility of a flash flood but one girl still got swept away because she ignored the staffs' instructions to get out of the river and onto the bank. One of the staff was very nearly drowned as well trying to rescue her. They were absolved of all blame by the coroner but the parents still went to the civil court for damages and what is worse were encouraged in that course of action by a claims lawyer. The parents lost of course but I can fully understand why the staff, having experienced the trauma of having a child in their charge drown and then being take to court didn't want to put themselves in the situation where it could happen again. Having the risk assessment explained to them and signing a consent form that included a copy of that risk assessment still didn't mean that the parents didn't feel the need to see someone blamed and punished for the death of their daughter.
Some people simply don't accept that sometimes accidents just happen no matter what safeguards you put in place - they want someone to be held responsible and punished even if there is no evidence of negligence and so it doesn't surprise me that those who might find themselves in the firing line are ultra cautious.
SM
I dont mind lilos one way or the other, BUT, I would object to being sold a lilo in the hotel shop and then not being able to use it. If they are banned then removed them from sale in the shop. Simples!
But as Sanji has pointed out, people do use them for reasons other than to use in that hotel's pool. I'm sure that others would find it a really helpful tip if hayesdays would mention the name of the hotel as Glynis requested - at least that way others would be less likely to make the same mistake. And as Darren has said, without knowing whether he raised this with the hotel management at the time and some idea of their response, it's difficult to offer any assistance.
SM
SM
I've got a feeling as that this isn't a particularly new rule in Spain.
I remember going to Minorca in 2003. Minorca being the Island deemed particularly suitable for families with kids under 12 and we were only in 3 key standard apartments so aimed fair and square at the family market.
The no inflatables in the pool rule did seem odd at the time, but of course we abided by the rules plus they were enforced by a lady lifeguard who made Franco look like a moderate.
We also had the exact same thing as hayesdays with the hotel minimart selling lilos, crocodiles etc which does seem a bit of a cheek. I think the least they should do is restrict it to buckets, spades and those foam things to help swimmers.
It's hard to explain to a kid why they can't use something bought in a shop ten foot from their holiday pool.
There were plenty of sunbeds so it's not like people were going to buy them to lay on, they were clearly catch-penny's for the shop that they knew the kids then couldn't use.
I can see if from both sides as personally I like to see children playing and lament the loss of that in lieu of what seems to have become the playstation portable, IPad & phone generation. On the other hand I like to swim myself and don't like ending up with a mouthful of wayward plastic.
It's a difficult one & I do sympathise with the OP.
Doe
I remember going to Minorca in 2003. Minorca being the Island deemed particularly suitable for families with kids under 12 and we were only in 3 key standard apartments so aimed fair and square at the family market.
The no inflatables in the pool rule did seem odd at the time, but of course we abided by the rules plus they were enforced by a lady lifeguard who made Franco look like a moderate.
We also had the exact same thing as hayesdays with the hotel minimart selling lilos, crocodiles etc which does seem a bit of a cheek. I think the least they should do is restrict it to buckets, spades and those foam things to help swimmers.
It's hard to explain to a kid why they can't use something bought in a shop ten foot from their holiday pool.
There were plenty of sunbeds so it's not like people were going to buy them to lay on, they were clearly catch-penny's for the shop that they knew the kids then couldn't use.
I can see if from both sides as personally I like to see children playing and lament the loss of that in lieu of what seems to have become the playstation portable, IPad & phone generation. On the other hand I like to swim myself and don't like ending up with a mouthful of wayward plastic.
It's a difficult one & I do sympathise with the OP.
Doe
ok just to throw my penny' worth in I can understand a child wanting to play in the pool with floaty toys but I cant get my head around a grown up lounging about on a lilo in the pool??? surely the object of a pool is too swim in ??
if you want to lie around in the sun whats wrong with your sun bed !!!
leave the pool to people who want to swim around without crashing into a bloody rubber thingy...
there my rant over.
if you want to lie around in the sun whats wrong with your sun bed !!!
leave the pool to people who want to swim around without crashing into a bloody rubber thingy...
there my rant over.
Ive just come back from Turkey and one hotel we previously stayed in had a dividing line down the middle.(the things that divide lanes in swimming baths here)One half for swimmers and the other for lilos etc.
denny.53 wrote:I dont mind lilos one way or the other, BUT, I would object to being sold a lilo in the hotel shop and then not being able to use it. If they are banned then removed them from sale in the shop. Simples!
The management don't normally have any control on the shops within the hotel. The space is rented out to various people by the hotel or group owners, such as hairdressers, jewellers, nic nac shops and private 'mini-supermarkets'- businesses that they consider to be beneficial to the hotel's customers - obviously they look at the type of things they're selling, they wouldn't want a shop selling (for example) porn items or manuals on how to make a home made bomb!
I beg to correct you but the facts are that both parents cleared off to snack bar to get a drink and left a 5 yr old alone in a pool. Another lad also 5 drowned because he too was left unsupervised.
Much as it is tragic; clearly cases of irresponsibility by parents/carers
I'm not referring to those cases.
Even without lilos people drown; moreso in the (quote) big pool - the sea than anywhere.
Not true, There are more people drown in public/communal and private pools than in the sea.
There are more UK children that tragically drown abroad in swimming pools, than in swimming pools in the UK.
It takes 2 minutes for a child to drown, there's no splash or noise, they sink to the bottom and within 4 to 6 mins, they are brain dead.
You will find that hotels have disclaimers so hardly likely they will get sued
Clearly you know nothing about Spanish law - there are heavy penalties for the owners of hotel/communal pools and also for pools on complex's - there is no 'get out clause' if they have failed to provide such things as a lifeguard, life saving equipment, cctv coverage and a fence around the pool where possible. - a private pool within the grounds of a private villa does not have to adhere to the rules, just yet.
Currently under Spanish law, if the unthinkable did happen and a child loses his/her life, you as the owner of the property would be held liable. A full investigation would take place to establish the circumstances surrounding the child’s death and the percentage of liability you carry. As a swimming pool owner and that also means hotel owners, it is your responsibility to provide a safe, healthy environment for people who come into contact with the pool.
And the crux of the whole situation is that the lifeguard on duty will be the first person in the firing line if something happens on their watch- therefore all pools have to be constructed where the lifeguards can have full unobstructed views including baby pools - Lilo's and other inflatables can restrict that view.
Even children (and adults for that matter) who can swim, they can fall victim to Shallow Water Blackout (SWB) which is considered to be a 'probable cause' in around 50% of privately-owned pool fatalities. With no warning whatsoever a swimmer can hyperventilate because they've held their breath for too long under water - they lose consciousness and drown in about 2 minutes.
Sanji
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