It could be split second timing as they could also go up......... Double check first that you only loose deposit if you cancel.

Yes I checked and it is "only" my deposit I would lose as it is only a booking at this stage, not an "instant" flight and I am well outside the final payment window.

I phoned Canadian Affair today and explained it now works out cheaper for me to cancel and rebook inbound flight than continue with current fare. However I said I would like to find a compromise and asked if I could I rollover to the cheaper inboundflight and suggested I would be ready to lose half of my deposit to do this as I am not changing the outbound flight.

At first girl on the phone said my inbound flight could not have been reduced by 50% since last week - it was! ( I assume they are having trouble selling them.) Then when she saw I was right and when I asked for a rollover, and said I was happy to give up half my deposit to do so, she got hostile and basically said, No Way. She was quite aggressive about it and said I wouldn't expect to pay more if the price went up, so why should I expect to pay less if it went down.

She said they did not do amendments, only cancellations and rebooking, which mean forfeiting the whole deposit even if you are changing one flight, or even rolling over the same flight as I want to do.

I pointed out my sister and family were also planning to come and to book with CA and we would also be booking hotels, cars etc for 10 days with them - total value around £5000-£6000, so could we reach a compromise?. She said grudgingly she would ask her manager but I am not sure she really understood my point (her English was not very good) or what she said to him or her.

So when she came back, Still No was the answer. I got the impression she thought I was trying to pull out of the holiday which is not true at all.

She said all amendments are treated as cancellations and charged by confiscating your £100 per person deposit for the entire return trip even if you are only amending one half of the booking. The only way to amend your booking is to lose all your entire deposit, cancel and start again. This is just daft, as one of the things their site lets you do is chose outbound and inbound flights separately so it is not as if they are a holiday package. (Their Canadian "sister" site allows amendments for C$40. )

She basically said if I didn't like it we could take our business elsewhere. Not hint of apology or regret and I must emphasise I was not rude. I am not a rude person. I did not even lose my temper but got near it when she said I could take my business elsewhere if I wanted to.

Is it worth losing £5000-6000 worth business just to squeeze £200 out of me? Is it true they can't do a rollover?. Who is getting the benefit of this sudden decrease in price which is costing me £280?

If I were you I would just keep the booking as it is to be honest. As you are pondering so much on whether to cancel and rebook it seems you are a little worried about price changes in the interim.

You could always book again and then cancel the other one afterwards? Bear in mind that you're having to fork out deposits again - do your current finances allow for this?

Well really I think I would like to know who is profiting from this. I have not yet paid in full, only a booking fee, so if the agency has not yet paid the airline, which price will they be paying for my flights? the one I booked originally or the new lower one? If the former I understand and fair enough but if the latter, then I should have thought a compromise was in order to keep my business. it can't be that big a deal at this stage to rollover my booking, unless they are already committed to paying for it at a higher price.

The girl I spoke to seemed to have no idea about any of this, as I said she originally contradicted me that I was wrong about the reduction then told me I had no right to expect one. She was not a native English speaker and I struggled with her accent as she did with mine. I was worried she might not be fully understanding what I was saying. Its different in the North America, isn't it always, almost all the US carriers pay their customers a voucher or credit if the fare price drops dramatically after it has been booked

I see also that the Ts and Cs for Canadian Affair in the UK are almost directly lifted from the sister Canadian site, except on the Canadian site is says there is a 40$ charge for amendments, if more than 12 weeks from departure. On the UK version this section has been modified to read that all amendments will be charged as cancellations ie at £100 each. Some difference. My son tells me that in some cases, budget airlines put a cookie on your PC if you are searching a lot on their site, and raise the price just for you! I don't think this happened in my case but still......................

I read recently that a UK company called Travelbag was found scamming customers by booking them on a high rate flight, then trawling the internet for lower prices cuts and rebooking them on the lower price rate (called a rollover) without telling them and pocketing the difference.

I can indeed leave the flight as it is but it is a large difference to swallow (and with so few bookings it might get cancelled anyway) but I can certainly book my hotels and cars somewhere else and will now do so.

You're right about that aspect Honey Rose. We do sometimes find our holidays have reduced in price - but sometimes the other way around.

You would expect their customer service to be a bit better considering you asked nicely about the situation and the total cost of your bookings.

Prices go up and prices go down. It is a hazard we all face every day.

When we lose out then it seems unfair, yet when we win we are over the moon.

I have just got a free upgrade on the holiday we have booked starting 11th May and did not ask for it.

Should they reduce the price?

Well no not really they are a business. It might seem unfair but if they kept doing that then they would be an ex business.

Cancellation and amendment charges are in the Terms & Conditions. You agreed to them when you booked.

You complain that they are unfair but then when you booked you had no complaint. It is only that you have now seen a price reduction that you cry foul.

If the price rises next week to double what you have paid then you will be happy.

fwh

I'm a bit confused - is it that Canadian Affair are now selling these tickets at a reduced price? Or have you spotted that Thomas Cook are selling these tickets at less than Canadian Affair for direct sales? If TC are selling them at the reduced price that might give you a better bargaining position with Canadian Affair. However, if they are still selling them direct at the higher price that would suggest that Canadian Affair is still contracted to pay for tickets at this price and has decided that there's too high a risk that they'll be left on their hands and are now trying to cut their losses by off loading some of them cheaply.

However you do need to remember that the US industry is different - even if TC are now selling these tickets at a reduced price there is still a strong likelihood that they are still contracted for the original price for tickets already sold, even if not paid for by the TA or TO.

SM

It is the Canadian Affair price which has been halved. There seems to be some sort of block on looking it up on the Thomas Cook website - which claims to have no Calgary flights at all (maybe that is why it is not selling ).

Interestingly the girl on the phone at Canadian Affair had no idea about any recent price changes on their site. Don't they notify their staff of this sort of thing? She was hostile and uninformed (and her English was was bit shaky).

When I told her my inbound flight price had halved, she told me very sharply it could not have done, I had made a mistake. Then she looked it up and told me I was confusing the fare with the taxes. Then when I pointed out the actual costs, she struggled to do the maths and then said very aggressively that all amendments were treated as cancellations even at 5 months out, and charged at £100 (lost deposit).

If she had given me an explanation like your suggestion above, that this is what they paid for the flights and they are now discounting them to reduce their loss, I might have understood. (Although I have not yet paid in full and nor I assume has the airline. So are they paying the original price or the cheaper one? )

I suggested rolling over my booking, which I am told is standard practice in the travel business in these cases, certainly it is in North America. I offered to spend the extra back with them and let them take half my deposit as a fee for doing it. It is not a package holiday just two flights so as I am only changing one, that might be a reasonable compromise. I get £250 pounds more to spend and they get it back in extra business. Everybody wins.

I doubt if she could have told me if CA had already paid for the flight as she seemed almost totally ignorant of anything to do with flights or bookings. She did not attempt to explain or apologise and I remain inconvinced she really understood what I was asking (Instant Purchases cannot be changed, but I did not have an Instant Purchase I had a booking which is not even due to be paid for another 6 weeks.

As it is all they will be getting, if that, is my flights and nothing more. The remaining £5000 I will spend via other firms and on line.

The issue is really one of customer service. They have just lost a potential customer in me who was ready if handled nicely, and at least given an understanding apology, to give them the benefit of the doubt.

And it remains the case I would still be nearly £100 better off cancelling the original booking, losing my £200 deposit and rebooking that is how big the difference is - in the space of 24 hours.

All I can say now is beware of Canadian Affair.

The terms and conditions are quite clear. They do say Loss of deposit.

They also refer to Thos Cook and Transat Airlines so it is quite possible that Thos Cook are not operating the flight.

You say you can cancel and rebook and still be in pocket so you have answered your own question.

Do it and save some money.

It is possible that the person you spoke with was not aware that they had changed the price. Not all informations filters down to frront line staff as quick as it should.

She can only take bookings or answer queries. She will have no authority to vary conditions laid down.

fwh

I can't help thinking that if I had done this through my local travel agent who I have known for a long time, it could have been sorted out much more amicably. But I was in a hurry. As it is I will go and see him tomorrow regarding the rest of the holiday.

I know that Canadian Affair are running a business - I am a businesswoman myself and i know sometimes you have to make small compromises with customers to get their good will and then you can actually make a great deal more money from their business as a result.

So Canadian Affair will get my deposit plus the cheaper fare out of me possibly, which is around £1000, but if they had been more sympathetic and more amenable they could have got around £6000 extra business from me.

I did ask the girl to refer it to her manager and she said she had but basically her English was not good and she did not believe the fare had halved even after I explained it to her she said it could not be the case. So I don't know what she explained to her manager but only a garbled account I expect.

I used to work in a business with a call centre and in these situations, where the customer is clearly disappointed over what they have bought, some sort of understanding and apology is needed. I got neither, just a denial that I was even correct. She did not even give me her name when she answered the phone, which they are supposed to do.

I was in Macys in New York recently and for tolerance and politeness of difficult customers (there was one in front of us) their staff were outstanding. Canadian Affair needs to give some of their staff better training.

I am about to post a report about them on Trip Advisor saying this as well.

honeyrose

I do take your point re how it was handled. They could have said no in a nicer way. Polite customer service can go a long way.However, you booked it and were happy enough at the time. If they had added £140 to the price a few days after you had paid a deposit would you expect to have to pay more? I don't know a lot about pricing but in any plane you will find wide variations on the prices paid for the same seat types. I try not to look at prices once I've booked something as I know I dont want to see it cheaper. You can still claw back some money by cancelling and rebooking- if you want to take the chance.

I suggested rolling over my booking, which I am told is standard practice in the travel business in these cases, certainly it is in North America.

I can't comment on North American practices but at a price of £560 return from the UK to Calgary it looks to me as if these are non-refundable, non-transferable tickets as is standard practice with UK based companies for their cheap fares. Had these been full fare, scheduled economy tickets it probably would have been possible to cancel and re-book but I would have epxected to have paid far more than that for a ticket with that sort of flexibility. In the end even if you'd booked these flights over the counter with a your local TA, the position would probably be the same. In the end it is irrelevant whether CA have paid TC for these tickets or not yet, all that matters is what price they have contracted to pay for them.

As others have commented, having booked at a price that seemed reasonable at the time, there is rarely any mileage in looking to see whether the price drops later. In most instances there's absolutely nothing you can do about it whilst at the same time causing yourself fruitless anxiety and frustration. Sometimes a company will make some sort of offer but it will be on the basis of being a goodwill gesture and nothing more - they are not obliged to do anything if their T&Cs clearly state the cancellation terms. Yes, the woman you dealt with could have been more understanding but look at it from her perspective - she's just a call centre operative who doesn't make the policy but has to implement it and moreover, is the one who has to tell customers that what they 'signed' for is what they have to pay regardless of any later price fluctuations. Just as you found her responses frustrating she probably found it equally frustrating having to repeat the company line on such matters. Personally, they really coudn't pay me enough to have be the person on the front-line in this way.

SMa

I think that you are being totally unreasonable in expecting them to allow you to rebook the flights at a lower price other than lose your deposit and rebook.
You quote the US rules unfortunately we do not have their rules and one of the bones of contention amongst those of us who cruise is that in the US they can cancel up to final payment and get their deposit back. We cancel and lose our deposit. Nothing we can do about it and we know the rules when we book.
Prices are either increased or decreased depending on how tickets are selling and as someone said already on any aircraft you will find people have paid all sorts of prices depending on the conditions of their ticket. Flexible will cost more. My Sister was out in San Francisco on a BA ticket and wanted to come home as few days early as their was illness at home.
No way would BA even consider changing her ticket. In the end we obtained a letter from her Partners Consultant to say that he had just had major surgery for cancer. Once that letter was faxed to them they let her fly home by changing the ticket. She had to prove it to BA otherwise she would have had to buy a new ticket. She was out there because her son had a brain haemorrhage and was very ill also. Everyone would want to change tickets if they did not have some R&R's
If I were you I would leave my booking as it is. At the outset you were happy to pay the price offered and it is not a wise move to look when you know that the ticket has conditions on it. Other than that you could cancel lose your deposit and rebook with another company if you feel so strongly about the Company.
As others have said breaking bad news is never easy for the person on the other end of the phone. I have lost deposits where I have taken a stand on something. Do they worry about it not a bit there will be someone else who is prepared to book.

Sue

Well I did not buy an instant ticket if that is what you mean. Those are certainly not refundable in any circs. So far I have only booked and paid a deposit and am not due to pay the balance for another 6 weeks. Have the agents already paid/committed to the airline at the price I paid or will it be at the lower price now posted on their website? I am afraid I am sceptical after reading about TravelBag making a lot of money a few years ago from rollovers, that is pocketing the difference when flight prices fell between booking and payment date and not telling the customers this.

I am also surprised that the price should be cut so dramatically when we are still 6 months out. I fly a fair amount, (not to Canada before) and usually it goes up the nearer it gets to the date. In this case even the call centre operative could not believe my flight price had been halved.

It also makes me a bit worrried - if the seats are not selling - if it could be cancelled. Not so much beforehand but maybe when I am due to return. What happens under EU regulations if your flight is cancelled and there isn't another one for 4 days (as could happen in our case)? This has not happened to me before but there could always be a first time and CA is known for doing this it seems.

I used to work in a company with a large Call Centre. It was in Manchester and ironically, a lot of their staff left when Thomas Cook opened up to go and work there. The problem with our company's call centre was that the senior bosses regarded the staff as idiots to be paid as little as possible. Many of the staff were people who needed to work part time and had little choice in what they did but no enthusiasm for their jobs. They were certainly little regarded by the senior managers in the company. Their desks and furniture were OK- that was for show when visitors were shown round - but the rest of the time they were poorly trained, underinformed, badly treated and poorly motivated and took it out on the customers. Maybe this is what is happening at Canadian Affair.

The Financial Director and I regularly joined forces to push for change to this state of affairs, we said if the Call Centre staff were better trained and treated in a more professional manner we would get a better more motivated workforce. We were always voted down by the others on the board because management was obsessed with sales not after sales service and did not want to pay the Call Centre staff much above the minimum wage. How did they stay in business? Like many travel companies (they were not one) they relying on different people signing up with them all the time and hoping enough by the law of averages would get an OK service and not complain.

Occasionally a really mad customer MD of (we were business to business) would ring up and give our MD what for but so long as there was a ready supply of new punters to be lured in by the sales force, then our MD didn't care. As you may have gathered I got fed up and left eventually. I sense some of the same "stuff them all attitude" in the Canadian Affair staff I talk to in London.

I don't think it makes any difference. You bought a product at a price and were happy to do so. Now you want to change the rules and this is not possible under the terms and conditions of the booking. You could cancel totally if you feel so strongly about this agency and go elsewhere. Are you going to get a cheaper price and cheaper is not always better?

Sue

Perhaps it would be better if we stayed ON TOPIC.

The quality of staff in call centres is not what is in dispute.

It has already been said that they are employees carrying out the job they are paid to do.

You bought a ticket that at the time you considered good value. You are put out that they have reduced the price.

You have a choice either cancel and lose your deposit then rebook with CA or someone else and save some money.

No good keep going on about it - if you delay further then the price could rise above the one you already have booked at.

fwh

The quality of the call centre staff IS a key element in this. I was put out and disappointed to find that I had lost £140 per flight (£280 in total) within 48 hours of booking and well ahead of the period when flights might go up. Even the girl at Canadian Affair could not believe initially there had been such a big price cut. Such a dramatic price cut would be treated more sympathetically from the consumer end in the US. As these were bookings at this stage (not instant purchases) and I intended to spend more with the agency concerned, I phoned up and asked politely if we could come to some compromise on this.

Of course I am cynical, why not when other agencies (eg Travelbag) have in the past been found profiteering at customers expense from just such price fluctuations. Mine was a simple business proposition - make me a small concession on this and I can put the rest of my potentially lucrative family business your way.

All I got was a hostile response, from someone with a weak grasp of English who had no idea prices had changed. Maybe I shouldn't expect more but this reflects my point here, that call centre operatives are treated like dirt, given little training and no initiative and this reflects in the unpleasant way they often treat customers.

On looking up Canadian Affair on the Internet it is clear, leaving aside my case, that whenever one of their customer gets into difficulties, through unusual circumstances, the company staff are hostile and unhelpful - I will provide some links if you do not believe me. Their staff need better training.

And in fact I am not just criticising Canadian Affair and its call centre staff. The whole airline industry in Europe basically has too many sharp practices, this is why the EU brought in its regulations about overbooking, cancellations and delays, regulations. Yet even now airlines are trying to dodge them. As in the debacle at T5.

Honeyrose

Honeyrose, this is getting you nowhere. You clearly aren't in agreement with and don't like the replies given by others in good faith on this forum and would ask you to bear in mind the following:

1) We can all only express our personal viewpoints and this is what we have been doing - if you responded to the call centre employee in the way you have to people on this forum then I can see why she might have got upset with you. Haranguing me won't make me change my mind nor I suspect others, including call centre staff.

2) I agree with many of your comments re the way call centre staff are treated - but the only way things will change is if customers boycott those that give poor service. Next time why not use a local independent TA that will be glad of the business and will give you personal service? Of course they mightn't be as cheap as a result but that's the choice we have to make - cheap prices and poor service or higher prices and greater flexibility and a more personal service. That's why I use on-line booking services for the cheap and cheerful and relatively simple travel arrangements for a quick bargain break in the sun but always use a specialist TO for my trips to Cuba because I know that I can make all the arrangements over the phone with someone who knows Cuba well, is also a keen salsa dancer, is able to be flexible and asks for a low deposit (but it is still made clear that the price I agree at the time of booking is the price I am contracted to pay no matter what happens in between then and the balance being paid) and with whom I now feel I know personally.

3) You are booking flights from the UK to Canada - US law is irrelevant and has no bearing on this issue.

SMa

Agreed! You asked here for advice and now you don't want to take it and feel justified in complaining about the Call Centre.
Rules are regulations are there for a reason. They can not be so flexible that they can allow people to chop and change depending what is happening with prices etc.
In my opinion you have 2 choices
1 You cancel and rebook
2 You keep the ticket you are contracted for
3 You cancel and go elsewhere if you feel so strongly about how the Company have treated you. In other words as a Principle!
This issue is not going to change however much you want it to. If the girl from the Call Centre had agreed with you wishes you would no doubt be delighted with the outcome.

I accidentally pressed the button twice on a JET2 flight. Booked twice but in order to cancel one of the flights even though there was a matter of just a couple of minutes I had to pay £35 amendment fee. They told me they did not have to do this I had to write to them. Now it has a warning about pressing buttons. Issues happen and you just have to deal with it.

Sue