Hi Elaine
In no way do I want to get into an argument with you and indeed with Kedi.
And I hope Admin respect my reply to your post.
You Quote me, and then give your interpretation of my quote, please you cant have both!
You say, ----------------------- My Quote,
Only Kurdish men ----------- Mainly Kurdish lads
Swindle the real owner ---------- To the detriment of the real owners
As you can see words can be interpreted differantly, depending on the individuals outlook.
In my original post, I was trying to offer a reason for the aggresivness that is developing, "on the door", if I can loosly use that term to cover all situations.and that is why I mentioned at the start, no racialism intended, and I stress again I am not racialist,
In regard to the "moon cheese", please take it in the context it was written, You know very well the lads, spin any yarn they can, to keep you interested, and indeed they can be funny, and I have on occasion joined in with their banter, and for a laugh even asked for a translation! i.e:-moon - green cheese, which when I told the story they found very funny!, probably if I had put a smiley, next to it you and Kedi might have took it in the context it was written, and to which I can only apologise for.
Can we at least agree on one thing, the hassle is going worse, and might I respectfully ask, both you and Kedi ,if you have any input as to who or what is to blame for this!!
Finaly Kedi, I do respect and love the Turkish people whatever their origin.
Indeed I consider it a privalige to be leaving the Uk and coming to live here permanently.
Best regards to you both
Peli
Peli,
I just find that many people seem to be against the Kurds for no reason and it just upsets me when I here these kind of things. Lets just leave it now as I don't think this is the place for this discussion.
I personally don't find the hassle is bad or indeed worse than when I first visited Turkey 18 yeras ago and I have never come across the agressive tactics some people have mentioned but we usually visit Bodrum and maybe other places are worse. I also think that Turkish people don't get hassled and when I am with my husband we don't get any hassle at all, people often assume I am Turkish too. If it is getting worse I don't know why this would be so.
Kedi
I just find that many people seem to be against the Kurds for no reason and it just upsets me when I here these kind of things. Lets just leave it now as I don't think this is the place for this discussion.
I personally don't find the hassle is bad or indeed worse than when I first visited Turkey 18 yeras ago and I have never come across the agressive tactics some people have mentioned but we usually visit Bodrum and maybe other places are worse. I also think that Turkish people don't get hassled and when I am with my husband we don't get any hassle at all, people often assume I am Turkish too. If it is getting worse I don't know why this would be so.
Kedi
Hi Peli,
My point really was that I honestly didn't see why, in your post,you would single out Kurds at all, as non-Turkish, or as being the majority of the workers who were doing/saying the things you are talking about. They are all Turkish citizens, and as I said before, my experience is its just as likely to be a "Turk" as a "Kurd" on the door, with the banter. But you've said your piece about that now, so have I
.
From when I first started going to Turkey, in my opinion, no, the hassle now is not as bad as it used to be. When I first went to Turkey, frontmen could (and did) literally chase you down the street for your custom. Now there are local laws which don't allow them to step outside the boundaries of the establishment they're working in.
I think what might be different is they have to try harder now - I don't know about Icmeler, but Gumbet used to have a very concentrated area of bars and restaurants, and so there was a lot of custom about in a relatively small space. Now the resort has expanded, there are several streets with bars/restaurants/shops, and therefore the custom is much more spread out too. I also don't think there as many tourists, from as many countries, going there anymore. So yes, it may be desperation. I've tried, over the years, explaining to Turkish business owners that being friendly and polite, without being overbearing and in-your-face, is the way to go, certainly with British tourists. But they won't listen. They reckon that they have to be louder and pushier than the guy next door to get anywhere.
Elaine
My point really was that I honestly didn't see why, in your post,you would single out Kurds at all, as non-Turkish, or as being the majority of the workers who were doing/saying the things you are talking about. They are all Turkish citizens, and as I said before, my experience is its just as likely to be a "Turk" as a "Kurd" on the door, with the banter. But you've said your piece about that now, so have I
.From when I first started going to Turkey, in my opinion, no, the hassle now is not as bad as it used to be. When I first went to Turkey, frontmen could (and did) literally chase you down the street for your custom. Now there are local laws which don't allow them to step outside the boundaries of the establishment they're working in.
I think what might be different is they have to try harder now - I don't know about Icmeler, but Gumbet used to have a very concentrated area of bars and restaurants, and so there was a lot of custom about in a relatively small space. Now the resort has expanded, there are several streets with bars/restaurants/shops, and therefore the custom is much more spread out too. I also don't think there as many tourists, from as many countries, going there anymore. So yes, it may be desperation. I've tried, over the years, explaining to Turkish business owners that being friendly and polite, without being overbearing and in-your-face, is the way to go, certainly with British tourists. But they won't listen. They reckon that they have to be louder and pushier than the guy next door to get anywhere.
Elaine
I have said this ,If only they would let you look and leave you alone you would would buy much more from them.
When i am made to feel awkward or hassled it makes you just want to leave,i was hopeing to buy some bags and t shirts ect this year...actually next week lol,but ill try my best i dont mind haggling thats ok but if you really dont want something its so annoying.
What they are doing is pushing customers away rather than getting a sale.
I will tell you all how i get on in a week or two,as its my first time to Turkey i am going to try and get some bargains i dont mind a bit of banter or even a bit of cheekyness,i just hope they dont shout at me...
When i am made to feel awkward or hassled it makes you just want to leave,i was hopeing to buy some bags and t shirts ect this year...actually next week lol,but ill try my best i dont mind haggling thats ok but if you really dont want something its so annoying.
What they are doing is pushing customers away rather than getting a sale.
I will tell you all how i get on in a week or two,as its my first time to Turkey i am going to try and get some bargains i dont mind a bit of banter or even a bit of cheekyness,i just hope they dont shout at me...
It's a pain in the rear trying to shop
Don't worry hun, I am sure it's a one off. We have been here all week and so far not heard anything like this. A polite no thanks is all thats needed! 
Love Nikki xx
Love Nikki xx
I have said this ,If only they would let you look and leave you alone you would would buy much more from them.
When i am made to feel awkward or hassled it makes you just want to leave,i was hopeing to buy some bags and t shirts ect this year...actually next week lol,but ill try my best i dont mind haggling thats ok but if you really dont want something its so annoying.
What they are doing is pushing customers away rather than getting a sale.
Absolutely nail on the head there. My wife said this to me last week whilst in Olu.
One day we were at the Blue lagoon and forgot to take our snorkels. I went back to the hotel to collect them on my own. Not once did I get get any hassle, and i passed lots of restaurants, bars, and shops. It would have been very different if my wife was with me I presume.
We had our first Turkish holiday this year to Olu Deniz and it was really good to go prepared for the 'hassle' factor having read previous threads on this site.
Fortuntately we didn't find the shop keepers too much, however on a couple of occassions when we just wanted a little look around to have some respite from the sun it cold be a bit much to have someone following you. There wasn't any pressure though to buy I might add, but did inhibit the browsing.
We were quite happy to try out sunglasses or look at bags and just hand them back saying we would think about it. The only time this was met with a grumpy shop worker was in Fethiye market but hey there you go.
As for the issue fo being 'touched up' in the shops this never happened to me. In fact I was more than happy to browse shops on my own......thinking about it I think I had less hassle on my own that when with my OH. Maybe they assumed he held the purse strings!
I never encountered the whole timeshare touts abroad thing but knowing how they used to operate that would have upset me more than dealing with some over zealous shop keeper.
It wouldn't put me off Turkey again that's for sure. I found a smile and a polite 'no thank you' always did the job. Also I found after a few days of being there they could tell by your tan you wren't 'fresh meat' and we got left alone!!!!!
Fortuntately we didn't find the shop keepers too much, however on a couple of occassions when we just wanted a little look around to have some respite from the sun it cold be a bit much to have someone following you. There wasn't any pressure though to buy I might add, but did inhibit the browsing.
We were quite happy to try out sunglasses or look at bags and just hand them back saying we would think about it. The only time this was met with a grumpy shop worker was in Fethiye market but hey there you go.
As for the issue fo being 'touched up' in the shops this never happened to me. In fact I was more than happy to browse shops on my own......thinking about it I think I had less hassle on my own that when with my OH. Maybe they assumed he held the purse strings!
I never encountered the whole timeshare touts abroad thing but knowing how they used to operate that would have upset me more than dealing with some over zealous shop keeper.
It wouldn't put me off Turkey again that's for sure. I found a smile and a polite 'no thank you' always did the job. Also I found after a few days of being there they could tell by your tan you wren't 'fresh meat' and we got left alone!!!!!
I think the way your look does have an effect on the way you are treated too. I am quite dark skinned even before I get a tan and I have long dark hair, I also tend to wear dresses and skirts rather than shorts to shop, so I think if I don't say anything a lot of shopkeepes think I am Turkish and don't bother me. My children are half Turkish and everyone says they do look very Turkish so that helps too. When I shop with my parents though, they do look more English so I get more shopkeeprs trying to sell me things then.
I have read the previous posts and can only say that I have NEVER had a bad experience in a shop in Turkey.
Maybe one or two restaurant front men have stepped over the line but not enough to get excited by.
I wonder if sometimes first time visitors are a bit too sensitive to previous posts and see problems where none really exist, or insults where none are intended
But there again no-one has ever touched my bum whilst on holiday (but I live in hopes!!)
Maybe one or two restaurant front men have stepped over the line but not enough to get excited by.
I wonder if sometimes first time visitors are a bit too sensitive to previous posts and see problems where none really exist, or insults where none are intended
But there again no-one has ever touched my bum whilst on holiday (but I live in hopes!!)
I wasn't actually on holiday when someone touched my bum, I was living there. It only happenend once though and I have never had any bad experiences since. I think a lot of people are not used to the way people are in Turkey and take it the wrong way but there do sound like some horrible shopkeepers too.
I had one shopkeeper out of goodness knows how many hundred people trying to sell me something try and touch me up whilst on holiday on different areas of Turkey over 20 years (he wasn't a young man either) - and that was whilst inside a shop trying to try on some clothes. The nearest thing to hassle I've had from younger lads, was to help them formulate text messages to their English-speaking girlfriends. If only I could say I had so little hassle/abuse from men in the UK!
I've come across plenty of respectful and polite young Kurdish men whilst in Turkey and the UK. Everyone working for/owning a business aimed at tourists is earning a crust in Turkey and it can be quite a hard sell, but I expect that or i wouldn't go there.
I've come across plenty of respectful and polite young Kurdish men whilst in Turkey and the UK. Everyone working for/owning a business aimed at tourists is earning a crust in Turkey and it can be quite a hard sell, but I expect that or i wouldn't go there.
Good post, phoebe - and my experiences have been similar. I've never had a problem while I've been in Turkey, and to be honest, I've felt safer walking around on my own - even at night - than I have in some areas in this country.
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