I think del949 is massivley underestimating the damage thats been done here. We would have been leaving next week for our second visit until the visa change popped up. Circumstances mean we cant go any other time, and after the usual inconvenience of getting our six month visa, have no intention of going through the latest procedures. We are certainly not the big spenders the esteemed Tourism Minister wants, but we would have paid our accomodation locally on arrival and put in about £500-£600 to the local economy Whether we return next year is debatable.
del949 seems to think all this will have little effect as the bulk of UK tourists only visit for 2-3 weeks once a year. I think this is unduly optomistic. Indeed last year with the huge drop in the UK package market, I would say a fair number of the tourists from the UK, were regular visitors, who book and pay their own accomodation on arrival, often visiting more than once a year. This is the sector of the market that will be most affected by what is happening.
I fully expect a further reduction on the number of package flights being available next year,, making the importance of the main group being targeted by the Minister even more vital to the future of the tourism business in Goa
Alan

Someone said this is political, something the Goans too are saying. Powers that be allegedly having vested interests in the 5 star hotels.

Late licensing of the shacks will probably happen again next year - powers that be don't want them on the beach since the Scarlett Keeling business (drugs and druggies and not forgetting sex too)!

Calling us regular, moderate spending repeat tourists dregs and dole scroungers - insulting and alienating us so that we go elsewhere.

All about getting rid of shacks, cleaning up the crime that allegedly goes on in ALL the shacks (the only crime I've seen is the cops taking their bungs although we know other things go on in some shacks) encouraging 5 star tourists (who they think are high spenders and squeaky clean - don't think this is always the case do you?) and ensuring their investments in the 5 star hotels is guaranteed.

Another "simples" view from me but nevertheless an element of truth.

Oh well..................."What to do" Fizz

BTW..................It has been interesting reading this thread....nice to discuss these things isn't it.

You're right gramps.
This year TC reduced their flights by not flying to Goa from LGW. Monarch took up the slack, but many people do not want to fly with Monarch.
Prices for packages have risen a lot this year, and you start to wonder if it's all worth it. What with the Visa being more expensive via VFS, then the new two month rule, then possibly getting only a 3 month visa, it's all getting to be too much hassle for those who just want to book a holiday. You can do this to other destinations hassle-free, so why would people bother?Many of us use the 6 month visa twice, to get value for our money.
The worry and stress for many people this year has been awful. Holidays booked, have had to be cancelled, losing them a lot more money. Tourists have been refused entry and had to catch the next flight home. All because India implemented this new rule mid-season, without communicating it to everyone, after issuing multiple entry visa's.
Some have had to travel hundreds of miles to apply in person for permission to re-enter, pay another £7.00 each and then wait for another week to see if they are being granted permission. Why?
What has this to do with security threats?

You know its just possible that the Goan tourism minister just does not like the British.

Papa

Can't possibly see why you get that impression Papa

You know its just possible that the Goan tourism minister just does not like the British.

You know its just possible that the Goan tourism minister reads HT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I most definitely believe that there will be less British Tourists in Goa next season, with the new 2 month rule. I was going out to Goa in November with my Daughter then over for Xmas with my husband in December.
The November trip has been changed to Thailand, simple as that, if I am not allowed into the country to spend my money, then I will spend it elsewhere - simple as that !!

visa situation aside, I am full of admiration for anyone who can face the hassle of the trip twice so close together.
Once a year fills me with dread.

You know its just possible that the Goan tourism minister reads HT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he does I suspect he will like us even less.Is it a charecterisic of the Indian temperament to believe they are right despite all contrary evidence?

I know that the Thais view "falangs" as inferior and even stupid for our strange ways.

I just wonder if deep down we are all prejudiced in some way.

I think this thread has been excellent reading with some thoughtfull and well balanced posts.

I am not sure but could it just be plain old fashioned prejudice and I do not mean racism but rather a feeling of superiority.That you are right in your views.

Is the tourism minister guilty of prejudice against us whiter than white Brits or are we being rather condesceding in our attitude to what is after all a democratic sovereign nation.

After all we have all witnessed some awful behaviour from our fellow travellers.

Does he look upon that with the same distaste as the majority of us? Has it coloured his view of us and made him dislike us?

Has it made him determined to do something about it albeit in a very odd way.

If other countries are being treated differently than us then you would have to think.

Just trying to throw another idea into the pot.

Papa

Papa
You are thinking on the same wavelength as me now.
cheers
Dave

And he's judging us all as being in the same pot - we aren't all the same any more than an Indian/Goan is. We have all met Goan's who are "on the make" and those who are (we hope) genuine. I take offence to his blinkered views that we are all the same unless we can afford five star. If we can't afford 5 star then we must all be on the "doles" in spite of the fact that most of us aren't, those that are may just be genuine people, legitimately on benefits but have still managed to scrape the money to go to Goa or are retirees who have worked their butts off to pay into the UK pot and are now getting something (even if it aint a lot) to add to their private pensions. This guy obviously doesn't really understand the British system of doing things and therefore shouldn't generalise. He hasn't a clue what he's talking about (and I don't know that I know everything) but he should engage his brain before opening his mouth - the people he is doing the most disservice to is his own in the long run, after all, we can go elsewhere and judging by many comments on HT, that's precisely what some regulars are going to do.

Rant over and no offence intended to anyone here on HT - it has been a very good discussion Fizz

Fizzy2,

Please do not apologise for your opinion.

I go again in March as we had booked before all this visa nonsense blew up.

However next year we may decide to go back to Thailand(visa on arrival) or Cambodia(crying out for tourists).

I just cannot see why they would want to drive away income when there are so many places where people can go.

I have no problem if they want to attract a more affluent tourist but Goa needs all classes of tourist to survive.

The more I read about the comments of this so called tourism minister the more I shake my head.

Papa

Vote with your feet! Sorry but we are not wanted in Goa and it is as simple as that.
Is it really worth all the hassle,money,time wasting?
Move on to visa on arrival destinations.... after you've stopped going to Goa for a while you'll start to think why on earth you bothered.

We have booked for Goa next year and so will be doing the usual to and fro-ing with the visa applications (which are not really such a bind) but have to say that I will be considering the year after a bit more , shall we say, thoughtfully. Partly because we have "done" Goa and maybe time for pastures anew anyway
The alterations to long stay/repeat visits have no impact on myself but the general sense of merely being a "milch-cow" does give a dispiriting feeling of only being a wallet with legs................. as far as the authorities seem to be concerned anyway.

Spaldy,

Its a big old world out there.Something the tourism mimister does not seem to understand.

With destinations like Cambodia and Vietnam opening up Goa will see a big exodus.

The tourism minister will be long gone leaving the poor people who rely on our money behind.

Interesting when this years figures for tourists come out will anyone believe them?

Papa

Hi Papa, I do agree with you and it's all very sad - it shouldn't matter where anyone comes from, the size of your income, their social class or even how you earn money as long as you and I are spending it in Goa. Mickey Pachecho should be looking at ways to encourage tourists rather than to discourage, business is business after all. I have noticed how snobbery prevails in Goa (India), I expect you have too, and this guy is one of the biggest snobs in Goa (in my opinion)!

My Dad used to say to me when I was young "you can learn the easy way, or you can learn the hard way".............looks like Goa will learn the hard way. I feel very sorry for the average Goan who totally relies on tourism (which is the majority now) to earn a crust. A Goan friend of ours is already feeling the pinch and was selling Christmas decorations when I was there in November just to create a little more income. Goan's as we all know are very resourceful people and I very much admire them for that (I don't mean the rip off merchants!) but there seems to be a lot less options for them nowadays....they could work in the paddy fields at one time but I think this happens less often now as land has been bought up for development (for tourism/or related projects). Putting all their economic eggs in one basket wasn't such a good idea was it

We will still visit Goa, as most of you know I have a Goan God daughter so I need to go and I'm not going to allow the likes of Mickey Looney Pa cheek o to put me off. I am certain we will all be closely watching just how all of his demented ramblings will effect Goa tourism. As for the new rules, it doesn't really affect me at the moment but it might at a later time however it doesn't mean I agree with it and I do feel for those who have been put to so much unnecessary hassle and cost. If they had waited until next season, we would no doubt have just got on with it but to do it mid season - the Governments putting a death wish on Goa tourism. Fizz

Remember that compared to the rest of India Goan's are quite wealthy. I'm not so sure i feel that sorry for them because at the end of the day they are the ones who keep voting these ministers in...and if the Goans don't agree with anything what do they do? Nothing!
As far as the tourism figures go Papa you will never get a true figure,never.
Your right it is a big wide world,i've spent a bit of time visiting a few places that you mentioned and to be honest they put Goa to shame. It makes you see Goa for what it is,dirty. They can't even put a footpath along the road for tourists to walk on. The beaches are dirty,take a look at Sihanoukville's beaches in Cambodia there is no comparison. Also you get visa on arrival! Which is renewable for one year,you never have to leave the country again if you don't want to.
The reason for this,they are welcoming British tourists with open arms....whereas in Goa we are not wanted and that is the bottom line.

There is certainly a lot of debate on the Goan forum of the likes you don't find on any of the other destinations on HT and that makes it very interesting reading ! The more you log in the more you start to form opinions, rightly or wrongly, about contributors without really knowing anything about them or their circumstances whatsoever.Without a doubt opinions will differ tremendously depending on those circumstances.
The one thing that everyone agrees on is that the 2 month rules on the VISA is an ill thought out move which will cause unnecessary hardship to a lot of people, especially when it is implemented without any prior warning. As an anti terrorism move it's probably ineffective anyway so who does it effect ? A pure guess on my part but I would imagine it won't effect the majority of traditional holiday makers as they probably only travel to Goa once a year.A smaller number will travel twice a year but most of those I would imagine have a 2 month gap between visits so it's my belief it will not effect many tourists at all. Those most effected will be those who take up winter residence in Goa and who want to take a visit back home for a few weeks and if that's the case then it's not really an holiday issue at all.
Do the Goan government have the right to prohibit long term visitors. Of course they do, it's their country.Why do they want to do it ? That's the issue I would like to know. The minister is quoted as getting rid of "doles". He might not have used that expression but reading the English language newspapers you get the impression that quite a bit is lost in translation and journalists like to be sensationalist anyway. It sells papers. If indeed he did suggest that the British visitors are all on the "doles", where on earth does he get that impression and he should back it up with facts. I must admit I am curious to know the breakdown in figures as to how many British visitors Goa gets and what proportion belong to what category.
It's understandable that any tourist destination needs to cultivate the right image to sell themselves and hence the minister has been quick to condemn the police investigation of the rape of a Russian minor, which followed by the Scarlett case has been extremely damaging with world wide publicity. Drink and drugs get linked to these stories and most people raised an eyebrow as to the situation with Mrs Keeling. You can understand where the minister is coming from but lumping everyone in one basket is a stupid mistake. Without a doubt there will be a proportion of long term visitors who put little into the economy and some are no doubt detrimental to Goa because of their behaviour. There are an awful lot more who spend a fair amount of money , inject income into theGoan economy and do no harm to anyone.Why target them ? Well I guess there are many people who base their opinions of foreigners in the same way as theGoan minister. The BNP has a growing number of supporters here in Britain, is it any different ? They claim to be non racist but they too seem to assume that all foreigners are on the make. Well of course they are, but it doesn't mean they are benefit scroungers. Everyone who migrates does so for a purpose. To improve their standard of living and I would have thought it's a benefit to the countries involved if there is no cost to them.
The arrogance and rudeness of some visitors to Goa whether they be long or short term visitors doesn't help project the right image of our country, and I think the racial superiority factor does come into play with quite a few people too. Our belief that we can get around the rules doesn't help either. People have continued " buying" property in Goa despite their knowledge that it isn't allowed , encouraged by unscrupulous Indians perhaps, but never the less done so in the belief that Indian laws are not tablets of stone but there to be broken.Likewise the misuse of a tourist VISA. Maybe some folk have brought this situation on themselves ?

DaveWales: The Goan government wants to deter long term visitors because they have the impression that they spend very little money. On the whole i would say that this is not true,most still have to pay rents on apartments and day to day living. I also know of people who come to Goa for 6 months and are out eating and drinking every night!
So where is he coming from? He doesn't like British that is where he is coming from.
Anyway must go leaving for Thailand tonight (free visa on arrival), visiting Cambodia and Vietnam (approx $20 on arrival) and also the Philippines (free visa on arrival).
Seems a better alternative to me than to go begging at the consulate to let me back in Goa!!