Sadly nowadays flying isn't the pleasure it once was - maybe perhaps because good manners and knowing how to behave in public seem to have vanished. You only have to look at Easyjet boarding scrums to see that.

I think the cabin crew and pilot should have told the offending passengers that they were in danger of being off loaded unless they moved.

Pippa

Weak Crew and Weak Pilot they should have been off loaded and i am afraid they would have been removed if they were the seats i had booked but knowing how things seem to work now in the UK it would have been me who was offloaded.

sanji

by "loads of money" I was refering to a saying of an irritating TV character (one of Harry Enfields??) that these people seem to want to imitate. You know the ones, they have to have the tan, jewellery and labels, some or all of which are fake, and have to tell everyone. And as I deal with public daily I do see a difference, arrogant is slowly being replaced with gormless so eventually this problem will go away and no-one will sit down unless told exactly where to!!

arrogant is slowly being replaced with gormless

I thought it was just me getting old that made me think that, how true.

The whole flight crew let this couple get the upper hand and were indecisive in their actions, it was simple, the couple moved to their allocated seat as requested by the flight crew or they should have been off loaded.

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1770&pagetype=90&pageid=9858

qatarman wrote:

Weak Crew and Weak Pilot they should have been off loaded and i am afraid they would have been removed if they were the seats i had booked but knowing how things seem to work now in the UK it would have been me who was offloaded.

I totally agree because now when you assert your rights in this country, you run the risk of becoming the villain and I'm afraid we have a mindset of obnoxious people across all the generations, who know this.
I'd have politely asked 3 times for them to move and then I would have gone ape.!
I can sit here and visualise the scenario and I can see why the OP capitulated because a similar scenario happened to me many years ago on a flight back from the Canary Islands, before you could pay for a specific seat, when an obese man who had been allocated the middle seat tried to bully me into moving into it from the aisle seat, and you've got a plane load full of people all wanting to get home and thinking " for god's sake just sit down anywhere so we can get away" and the pressure is enormous because you don't want to be the cause of an unnecessary delay.

He stood blocking my way so that I couldn't get out of my seat to let him in, and then when the cabin crew came down to see what all the fuss was about, he stepped to one side and tried to make it look like I wouldn't move to allow him to sit down in his seat.
He grunted and squeezed his way into his seat and then proceeded to make my life hell, first as soon as the seat belt sign went off, he raised the armrest and half his body spilt into my seat, so we had further words when I asked him if he'd paid for his seat, to which he grunted "stupid?" so I said "stupid or not, I've paid for my seat too, not half of one" and I lowered the armrest back down, and we had a running armrest fight for the next 30 mins.

Then, every 15 mins he got out of his seat and went and stood in the emergency exit and I was up and down like a yoyo, his objective was for me to get tired of this and move into the middle seat.
This didn't work, so then for the last 2 hours of the flight he pretended that he was ill and he sat on the seat where the cabin crew sit during take off/landing until the plane did start the landing procedure.

I try to think all the time that none of us like being in an aluminium tube at close range with other people, well total strangers, who may have problems that are not obvious and we all have to be tolerant, I've sat next to screaming kids and they have grated my nerves to the point of wanting to slap and scream at them, but there's no point, you just have to turn the volume up on the headphones and take a deep breath, and years ago I was "anything for a quiet life sort of person", but now.? No chance.! I don't know if it's an age thing, but nobody is going to poo on me because if you let them, they will.!

Sanji x

I'd be fuming too - apart from anything else, it's just downright bad manners on their part! We flew to Spain a few years back and there were two women on the flight (mum and grown-up daughter) who had obviously had a few sherries before getting on the plane, and proceeded to cause havoc for much of the journey, including letting their two kids run riot! The staff tried their best to get the pair of them to settle down, but eventually the chief steward told them in no uncertain terms that if there was any more nonsense from them, police would be waiting for them on arrival at the airport, and they would also be put on some kind of "unruly passengers' list" (not sure of the exact wording) and would not be allowed to fly with that airline again.
Why should rude, arrogant or yes, even gormless people, be allowed to ruin things for everyone else? I can fully understand that it is sometimes difficult to stand up for yourself in those circumstances - I've been there and kept my mouth shut for peace's sake - but as time goes on, I'm getting less and less inclined to do so, and more and more inclined to stand my ground!

What an awful thing to happen. Airlines have introduced this system where you pay for a specific seat and now cant even be bothered to enforce it when someone abuses their system.

I really think I am turning into a grumpy old woman, as when I hear of incidents like this and see other problems happening in the cabin, I just wish the staff would off load the difficult passengers.

I'm at the point where I really couldn't care less if obnoxious people get left behind (more space for the rest of us) and just wish the staff had the balls to do it. Over drinking is a particular hate, why on earth anyone should have to put up with a drunk on a plane is beyond me. Grrh!

Good link, Kiltman.

Unacceptable Behaviour on Board
Under UK law, there are two pieces of legislation relating to disruptive behaviour on-board aircraft. Offences include:

"¢Endangering the safety of an aircraft;
"¢Being drunk in an aircraft;
"¢Smoking when prohibited;
"¢Disobeying a lawful command by the commander of an aircraft; and
"¢Acting in a disruptive manner (including interfering with the performance by a member of the cabin crew in the course of their duties).

I think when the pilot came down and was 'abrupt' to JMK the cabin crew should have stepped in and explained the situation.
The pilot should then have told the couple to move and if they 'disobeyed his lawful command' they would be deemed guilty of 'unacceptable behaviour on board', would be off-loaded and put on a barred passenger list which may extend to other carriers.

I'm sure that, given that ultimatum, they would have moved.

Thomas Cook really let this couple down - regardless of how 'nice' the cabin crew were.

So, there is a CLEAR consensus of opinion here...

I would press TCA to hear what they have done to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't happen to anyone else..back to you JMK...

ATB,J.

I think we are all behind you on this one, and wish you good luck with your complaint.

How dare some people think they are above the rules that everyone else sticks to. I can understand the cabin crew had a limit to what they could do, and I'm sure they are told not to lay a hand on people if they can avoid it, so hoicking them out of the seats probably wasn't an option.

These passengers should be blacklisted.

All the best with your complaint, and I hope it gets resolved soon.

If I were travelling with Thomas Cook in the near future (which I'm not) I would be contacting Thomas Cook Customer Service mentioning this incident and asking them for written confirmation that if something similar happened to me the cabin crew would sort it out for me instead of backing down to 2 rude passengers with no manners or consideration at all.

Unfortunately, as seems to be the case so often in this country nowadays, if the OP had been more assertive he probably would have found that HE was the one in trouble - instead of the real culprits.

this kind of stuff is happening all over the shot. I saw the same on a train, where a person refused to move off a seat that was clearly reserved. What do you do - start a fight? Call the police?

Charity

Prettypollycat, with the weight of evidence in his possession, I don't think so for one minute... and I would have stood my ground....It does, however make me wonder what the other passengers were doing.. in my experience when this sort of thing happens, then there is usually a "groundswell" of opinion that stirs against the wrong-doer and they are normally "shamed" into doing the "right thing"...something to do with the "British sense of fair play" and all that....

ATB,J.

Charity... in the case of a train, call the TRAIN MANAGER (in my day it was the guard!)... in this case I think that we are all agreed that it was inneffectual Cabin Crew (including the manager and Pilot) that were responsible for this debacle....

ATB,J.

merseygull
Aadly, I'm not so sure that I agree. People of the type who would be so rude to do something like this tend tend to come up smelling of roses in any conflict or confrontational situation.
Very unfair, imho.

The OP had already been abruptly spoken to by the pilot - which must have added insult to injury.

I'm surprised too at the lack of support for JMK from other passengers.
If I'd be on that plane and in the near vicinity, I'd have started the 'groundswell'.
And I'd have told the pilot that he should move these 2 people pdq if he wanted to meet his slot.
Pity someone didn't take a photo of this couple and post it on one of the appropriate sites - global name and shame.

Probably I'd have been off-loaded too.....

I think most of the other passengers didn't know what was going on because I was discreet in speaking to the cabin staff. I was not prepared to lower myself to the level of this obnoxious pair. When we were waiting for our bags at the end a few people spoke to me about the incident and 2 couples told me they had tried to take their seats in oirder to avoid sitting by a baby. I think if I had realised this from the start I would have made a bigger fuss. Since returning, I have already booked two flights to Dalaman for next year and they are not with Thomas Cook. I was one of their loyal customers (several times a year) and always recommended that friends used them when visiting my villa.
Anyway if by some chance the vile, liar of a woman who took my seat is reading this. She and her husband should have been sat in row 8 D and E leaving Dalaman on 4th October to Birmingham. Flight number TCX468L. I would like to say that depite her diamonds, smart clothes and elderly Sloane ranger look she should feel very ashamed of herself for lying just to get her own way without regard for others. I have never met such an obnoxious, selfish pair on any flight anywhere in the world. I would prefer to be near someone who was a little tipsy than be sat near her with her smug attitude. Sitting by that baby and his mum was a delight, it was just the discomfort of having to get in and out of a non isle seat that was really painful.
Well I've had my rant so thanks all for your comments, I'll let you know what kind of reply I get from TC. Letter was sent last Thursday by registered post.

Quick question here, how many of you wouldn't want to be sat next to or near a family with 2 young children if the parents were doing their best to keep the children under control? Do people without children have a problem with children making any noise even if they're only singing kids songs or whinging at having to be on our laps during take off and landing? Hubby & I are going to Turkey next year and although we're flying with Thomson which is frequetly used by families, I'm now thinking what if we have anti baby/child snoots sitting near us?

Cate, speaking personally, we don't have a problem with kiddies ( we have 7, yes, Seven!), but when flying long haul Sara and I always book premium and pre-book our seats as a pair without anyone sat alongside us whenever possible... it's just our preference and one that we're happy to pay extra for...

I think that we can see clearly from the OP that he DIDN'T have a problem, although the miscreants might have... I think that they would be in a minority.

I do disagree with taking VERY tiny tots on board (less than 12 months), simply because they are prone to suffer due to changing cabin pressures and the inability to compensate, especially if they have an element of "glue ear" or a cold, it can be a painful process, albeit one that won't lead to permanent damage (either mental or physical), but it can be distressing for other passengers.

ATB,J.

Charity

in the case of someone like this taking reserved seats (or designated disabled spaces) on trains it is covered by the Railway Byelaws http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legislation/regs/railwaysbyelaws.pdf . First call the conductor and let it go from there. But bear in mind any conductor with a full set of teeth knows where the police can provide support and where they can't! Sometimes it's safer to let the yobs sit where they want all the way to where the police can meet up rather than risk an assault and wait 30 minutes for them to come to where you are!

Cate

you make a very important distinction about parents doing their best. Kids get tired, cut teeth, have temperatures etc. and you can't blame them for it, it's ignorant parents who annoy me.