When an agent sells 'dynamic' packages (which can actually be covered by the Package Regs) their terms and conditions clearly state what you are buying. You have to agree you've read and accepted them before you can book. The problems arise when people just tick the box, without actually reading them. More fool them!

The vast majority of what we sold were 'dynamic' packages, but they were covered by the Package Regs. These are no different to a tailor made holiday bought from a mainstream tour operator, but usually cheaper. Dynamic packaging is one way that independent agents can compete against the vertically integrated ones.

None of the over sensationalised TV programmes about this sort of thing, have n
ever let the facts stand in the way of the rankings.

We have had 2 Dynamic package holidays this year with Hays.
We always take out supplier failure cover as our travel insurance doesnt cover supplier failure,
I have used Hays since they opened in 1980 and have travelled all over the world with them and always have been satisfied.
Some of these holidays have been a lot cheaper than booking a package,yet staying in the same hotel and travelling on the same flight.
John Hays helped out lots of people who were stranded when Freedom flights went bust.

It seems to me the actual dynamic booking idea is not a problem , sticking together some cheap bits here and there , it's just that this recurring problem that comes up again , that the agent phones a few days before departure or when the customer arrives that the accommodation is not what they've paid for , and the offered accommodation is markedly inferior to what was booked . That is covered in the T&C s and everyone throws their hands in the air and says nuffink to do wiv me guv . Their seems to be very little problems with flights and they are mainly using the LCC s and that runs ok , so it's whether you want to take the risk on paying for your ideal accommodation subject to nothing going wrong , but I can easily see why people are frustrated when they don't get what they have paid for and the appointed agent who have received all the money seem to do very little apart from offering lower quality accommodation or pay more if you want the same standard .

Andy makes some very valid points but I wonder if the real problem is that people often are more concerned with getting a cheap holiday without really understanding the risks involved.
In the "Sticky" at the top of the page I have tried to explain how the system works but I am well aware that it does not fully explain the risks involved. Yes when you go on these websites they do make it clear in the T&Cs what you are booking but with all the waffle we read about "Rights" I think people, if they actually read the T&Cs, actually ignore them considering "Their Rights" will protect them.
They are entering into contract which is binding on both sides although the purveyors of these have ensured the T&Cs absolve them from blame in most cases. For that matter do people actually understand the concept of a contract? Just as they scream about rights it does cut both ways. The agents also have rights and that does mean people actually taking responsibility for their actions when they book these holidays.
A major problem with "Dynamic Holidays" is the accommodation issue as Andy says. Flights very rarely feature in the complaints posted here on HT.
Who is to blame for this I am not sure. If accommodation providers want to get full occupancy then they need to take more responsibilty. The "Bed Banks" I am sure take the bookings in good faith but the hotel/apartment owners seem in many cases to escape blame, yet from what I have read they simply cancel the bookings because they have in effect got a better offer.
We do of course only hear of the ones that have gone wrong, the majority obviously go right but that is not to say we do not need better controls. But who should they be aimed at? The agent? Well they are simply an agent acting on your behalf, they obviously want everything to go smoothly. The Bed Banks? Should they be more pro-active and refuse to sell rooms where there is a history of the owners cancelling with little or no notice. The Hotel/Apartment owners who renage on the deals without penalty? The fact these are in other countries with different "Consumer Legislation" is a major stumbling block and any controls/penalties need to be applied to them in my opinion.

fwh

I have done separate bits to make up a holiday for years without any problems at all, even when we had the ash cloud Easyjet were brilliant when we were caught in Spain. In the last two years I have struggled to find any saving doing it this way.I have just done a lot of research for a holiday and the plane and hotel prices to me have gone way up and are often dearer than booking a package in one go. The holiday I went for doing the hotel direct was £100 more than the full package with First Choice. There are complaints that keep coming up about overbooking with some bed bookers and it keeps coming up they are only agents and it is not their responsibility. If you buy anything from a shop it is their responsibility to sort it if anything goes wrong, what is the differance?

There are complaints that keep coming up about overbooking with some bed bookers and it keeps coming up they are only agents and it is not their responsibility. If you buy anything from a shop it is their responsibility to sort it if anything goes wrong, what is the differance?

In many cases they do try to sort it out by offering an alternative. But if the accommodation if fully booked then there is nothing they can do. I another post I suggested that you could possibly sue for breach of contract should the hotel suddenly decline your booking but the fact it is in another country with different laws, never mind the expense involved, it is totally impractical.

You also say

The holiday I went for doing the hotel direct was £100 more than the full package with First Choice.

I was asked the question last year by the manager of my hotel in Cyprus why I did not book with them direct as they offered a very good rate. I told them that by the time I had organised my flights and transfers it was far cheaper to go with the TO. I priced up a hotel a few days ago. The total price without flights/transfers was over £500 more than with a TO.

fwh

I've recently booked a holiday with Travel Republic and looked to see who the agent was. It turned out to be Servigroup the hotel chain of where I'm staying so I hope all goes well.

fwh wrote:

I was asked the question last year by the manager of my hotel in Cyprus why I did not book with them direct as they offered a very good rate. I told them that by the time I had organised my flights and transfers it was far cheaper to go with the TO. I priced up a hotel a few days ago. The total price without flights/transfers was over £500 more than with a TO.

fwh

Several times over the last two or three years I've carried out a similar exercise -but as fwh I've found the same problem , Thomson/Thos Cook package is cheaper than parts. These were for long haul holidays to Kenya and the Caribbean.
However, the same applies for short haul.For example,we are off to Corfu soon, we have got a package for £368 pp -the flights only (at the time of booking )were coming out at £297pp including luggage etc!!Transfers add on~ £30 pp.
There is no way we could have got a week's accommodation for £41 pp !!

So over the last few years we have managed to now arrive at a situation where 1 major travel company TUI/ thomson / first choice have mopped up the package holiday as most of us understand it , because they are a vertically integrated company they can control all cost aspects of the holiday , at the moment they can price packages very competitively and beat other ways of booking like fwh and Dave have pointed out , it seems like no one else can compete unless cutting corners , which sounds great for mass consumers at the moment , but what about the future when there might be less competition because they are being slowly eliminated by the giant .
I have no axe to grind with thomson / FC , I have previously used them for a package holiday and they were extremely good and I would use them above any other travel company perhaps bar Kuoni in my experience .
But where does this leave the average holiday maker ? Either book with thomson or pick an agent who is creating a dynamic holiday package and some of the pitfalls that we hear about from time to time . I'm not knocking the idea of dynamic packages ( soon as you start naming things in a non understandable way it usually means there is a catch ) they appeal to consumers who are price conscious and yes everyone should read every bit of the T&C s but they are created to remove any obligation on the part of the agent to provide what has actually been paid for , it's like no one or anyone is responsible . The LCC s they use for flights seem to cause no problems or failure to provide service but in some cases the accommodation appears to be a lottery .
Purchasing a holiday should be a enjoyable task , but its starting to look like buying a second hand car or double glazing could be less frustrating .

Andy66, it's not that no one is responsible, it's more a case that because some customers don't read and/or don't understand the T&Cs covering their booking, that it is generally speaking not the company they assume is responsible.

I haven't booked a standard package holiday with any of the big operators for over 10 years now because generally speaking that is not the sort of holiday I do these days. I'm not ruling it out in the future, who knows, if we have another winter like the last one, I might well be tempted by the thought of a no fuss week of winter sun, especially if I can get it cheaper than through a DIY. So these days all my holidays are generally put together by myself as separate components. Even with my regular trips to Cuba they are now based on me booking what the company I book them with terms a 'ground' package, that is everything from once I walk out of the Arrivals hall in Cuba to when I walk back through security on the way home but it is up to me to sort my own flights out. They have offered to do this and on occasions I have asked them to do it because they have been able to source cheaper flights than I could but I've also booked my own flights where I was being offered a better deal by dealing direct with the airline.

Similarly, I often use TR and other on-line bookers for flights to Tenerife when going to stay on La Gomera - in my experience it costs less to book flights with Jet2 through TR than booking direct with Jet2 themselves and i can rarely book so far in advance that I can take advantage of the really cheap prices with the likes of EasyJet. But I always book the apartment through a local agent on the island found as a result of searching the Net. Yes, it felt like a bit of a gamble the first time but the service was excellent and I have continued to use them without problem. But the key things is that either way, I know what I am taking on.

I have used TR very successfully on a number of occasions but as it turns out, either for the accommodation only or just the flights but never both together so I have never been under any illusions about the risks I am taking on if I do that. I've never had problems with either - the hotels have never been overbooked, the flights have never so much as been changed by the slightest detail. I don't know whether this is because I have just been lucky or because of the type of bookings I make. Yes, the lack of competition between TOs for standard packages is a concern but it is also irrelevant to the issues associated with dynamic packages which do stem from people booking without reading and taking on board the T&Cs they are agreeing to.

Perhaps if people stopped booking dynamic packages then perhaps TAs like TR and other on-line agents specialising in dynamic packages would change their T&Cs but nothing will happen if people keep booking them. And let's be clear, the majority of people DO understand what they are signing up to and the majority of dynamic packages work perfectly without a hitch all of which leaves many satisfied customers. The core problem was, is and will remain, that there are still people out there who do not make sure that what they are buying is what they really want. In other words they want the security that comes with booking a traditional, fully bonded package with a traditional vertically structured TO but instead go on-line in the hope of getting something cheaper and end up buying something different because they make assumptions about what they are buying rather than fully checking that what they are booking is what they really want before they hit the 'Confirm' button.

SM

Been looking at returning to Cyprus next October. We decided not to go there this year when we saw a massive hike in the price for our hotel of choice - up £600 on two years ago....
Thomson are quoting £1,710 for two people for two weeks at the hotel we stayed at last year which is around £259 less than Thos Cook. Booking direct would cost us about the same as Thomson are offering it at with the diiscount they will give me as a returning customer. It is a no brainer as far as we are concerned.
Andy is correct in saying that Thomson/TUI are in effect cornering the market and it cannot bode wel for the future. The Dynamic Package trade will struggle to keep up for some destinations is there is aggressive price cutting to corner the market.
But what we really need to think about is how we can educate people to understand the difference between both types of holiday and how to put a stop to the last minute changes that cause so many problems. The educating bit is, in my opinion harder than creating the protection. Sites such as HT, where you can actually get sensible advice, are not as numerous as some might think. We can only help if people find us and take time to read/research. Most of the problems or is it rants are due to people not taking time to read the T&Cs. It is quite clear if people actually take the time instead there is an assumption that there is nothing to bother about. If we use the car analogy, when working I regularly came across people who bought cars then complained they would not fit in the garage - they just assumed yet blamed us for selling them the car. Drive down the road at 40mph and get a ticket - who is at fault? You because you did not tale notice of the signs and just assumed.
Most of the companies who put together Dynamics I believe do so in good faith. They also need protecting otherwise they will simply go out of business if controls are only applied to them. The owners of the hotels/apartments need to be held responsible as it so often is them who cancel at the last moment. The other thing that needs to be addressed is the delay in getting your money back. Whilst I personally could afford to wait a couple of months many people cannot and the delays only exacerbate the problems.

fwh

Sorry made a mistake here,

Booking direct would cost us about the same as Thomson are offering it at with the diiscount they will give me as a returning customer. It is a no brainer as far as we are concerned.

Should have said THE HOTEL were offering the discount.

Thanks to Carol for pointing it out.

fwh

Nothing ticks me off more than the smug patronising 'I can't see what your problem is' or 'you should have read the small print ' brigade...... I went to Hays Travel to book a holiday>>>>> A PACKAGE HOLIDAY!!!! Not a cheap cobbled together holiday, I didn't know there were variations and why didn't I know???? Because I'm not a Travel Agent!!!! Simples.

I put my trust in someone I believed who would guide me, I paid top dollar and because they failed to make me aware I got shafted. In law in this country everything should be covered to protect the consumer. Separate components or not when I paid Hays travel for my holiday it was paid for in one lump...... That made those separates A PACKAGE!!..... Otherwise I should have been invoiced separately by each supplier, which I wasn't nor did I have any choice over the suppliers.

Dynamic Packages in the way mine was sold to me are tantamount to sharp practice and if all components covered by the travel agents ATOL bond it should be covered under the Package Holiday Legislation. Bought & paid for separately not covered its as simple as that.....

I have booked with Hays travel since 1986 both Packages and Dynamic packages of which I have been on 2 of these this year.
I am always advised to take out Supplier Failure cover which is about £10.
This is not normally covered by regular Travel Insurance.
Maybe if there is a travel agent on line they can explain about this extra cover which wouldnt leave you out of pocket should any component of the holiday be cancelled.

Jay Trip wrote:

I have booked with Hays travel since 1986 both Packages and Dynamic packages of which I have been on 2 of these this year.
I am always advised to take out Supplier Failure cover which is about £10.
This is not normally covered by regular Travel Insurance.
Maybe if there is a travel agent on line they can explain about this extra cover which wouldnt leave you out of pocket should any component of the holiday be cancelled.

....not sure that supplier failure cover would help in the case of a hotel overbooking/cancelling accommodation which seem to be behind most of the complaints about dynamic packages??

Jay Trip wrote:

I have booked with Hays travel since 1986 both Packages and Dynamic packages of which I have been on 2 of these this year.
I am always advised to take out Supplier Failure cover which is about £10.
This is not normally covered by regular Travel Insurance.
Maybe if there is a travel agent on line they can explain about this extra cover which wouldnt leave you out of pocket should any component of the holiday be cancelled.

If you're travelling on a non package, your need a policy that covers for consequential loss. Travel disruption, independent traveller etc of whatever the individual companies call it, would usually cover end supplier failure, along with the other cover you really should have for this type of travel. My policy covers it all as standard, as do lots of others, as more and more people don't book packages. Others offer it as an add on. Any company tha doesn't offer it at all these days, would make me study the cover they are actually offering very carefully.

Supplier failure won't help with overbooking. It's just as it says. It covers for supplier failure. Insurance wouldn't usually cover against overbooking anyway.

Hi I would be grateful if you could possibly email me with details of how you managed to get refund from HAYS please? I am fighting with them at the moment and any help and advice would be most appreciated. Regards

lajlik, don't think the guy who was chasing Hays (Bigbloke1956) for comp. ever got it -he was saying that someone on the BBC prog. had been refunded after Dom Littlewood got involved.
Or at least,he hasn't been back on in the last two weeks to tell us how he is gettting on.

Not all of us who choose to book "Dynamic Packages" do so purely for the saving in cost. Although there are usually only a few airlines which fly the routes we want there are plenty of hotels when we finally get there, of which the big TOs only use certain ones. Another point to remember is that not everybody wants a 7 or 14 day holiday or to fly on the days the big TO's offer. There will obviously always be those who only feel happy with the 'security' of a package holiday but to categorize those of us who book in other ways as cheapskates, only interested in getting something as cheaply as possible, really will not do in this day and age.