I think that this is not a clear cut situation because the DDA only obligates them to make reasonable adjustments to ensure that someone with a disabilty has the same level of access and provision of service as an ablebodied person. Their position seems to be that nobody who books a Discount fare ticket is allocated their seat more than 72 hrs before departure and that to do this for someone with a disability is giving them preferential treatment not equal treatment? And that anybody who does want confirmation of their seat number immediately upon booking must buy a Basic price ticket? Have I understood correctly what you have been told?

Also, can you confirm whether they have said that if you book the Discount fare then he cannot be allocated a medical seat at all or simply that he cannot be allocated one until 72 hrs beforehand in line with sll bookings in that price band and hence there is no guarantee that one will still be available?

SM

Can't be discrimination-they are offering you the opportunity to purchase the seats you require in advance -the same as an able bodied person who is "abnormally" tall -effectively you are wanting preferential treatment because of his disabilities.

Aren't the DDA and the Equalities Act part of UK law ?

Surely this is a Portuguese airline and would be required to comply with Portuguese law, they may not have comparable legislation.

Either way I can't see anything discriminatory in this. People are only entitled to equal treatment to the able bodied not more favourable treatment.

Airlnes flying into the UK usually have to comply with relevant UK laws but either way they would have to comply with the EU regulations of 2006 which sets out similar requirements to the DDA.

SM

How can it be discrimination when they're getting offered exactly the same as everyone else? Being disabled doesn't entitle people to preferential treatment.

SMa wrote:

Airlnes flying into the UK usually have to comply with relevant UK laws but either way they would have to comply with the EU regulations of 2006 which sets out similar requirements to the DDA.

SM

I did qualify it by saying either way it wasn't discriminatory.

I don't think that we actually have enough information to know whether TAP is being discriminatory or not because the OP has not been back to confirm whether TAP have actually refused to sell him Discount range tickets because of his father's disability (which would almost certainly be contrary to both the DDA and the EU regulations). Or whether they have simply said that they cannot confirm which seats they will be allocated until 72 hrs before departure.

Much hinges in all these sort of cases on what constitutes a 'reasonable adjustment'. They cannot refuse to sell him the cheapest ticket on the grounds of his disability and the interesting thing would be to see what happens if he does buy them Discount tickets and having made TAP aware of his needs at the time of booking, TAP cannot then provide him with a suitable medical seat on the day. It would get even more interesting if under those circumstances they then denied him boarding.

TAP's own website is not very clear on these issues. It simply says that if you are disabled and/or have special needs then you should inform them of this at the time of booking and certainly no less than 48 hrs before departure. At no point can I find any mention of disabled passengers only being allowed to buy certain categories of tickets - mainly I suspect because that would be illegal.

There is case law in the UK on this issue - Ryanair tried to charge its disabled passnegers extra, was taken to court and lost. The EU regulations clearly state that the costs associated with complying with the law re disability are basic running costs and like all such costs need to be shared out across all tickets as part of their pricing stucture. If TAP is refusing to sell its lowest priced tickets to people with disbilities it would be in contravention of both UK law and EU regulations. But as I said, we don't actually know that because what the OP reports he was told is ambiguous and needs clarification.

I regularly book assistance on trains and planes for my disabled mother and we have never been told that we are not allowed to book the cheapest tickets. The 'reasonable adjustments' that they have all made is that because the number of medical seats is limited, they do reserve a suitable seat at the time of booking regardless of the category of ticket purchased.

SM

Good afternoon!

Firstly, my thanks for those who have replied to my original post and sincere apologies for not having replied sooner due to ongoing ill health myself.

I'm sorry too if my content was somewhat ambiguous or unclear. The point I was trying to make is that we have previously made the journey from either Luton or Gatwick to Funchal with either Thomson or Monarch and that my father, along with my mother as his carer, have previously been allocated welfare seats well in advance of the flight date at, or very near, the front of the aircraft and at no extra charge due to his disability. However, this year we are choosing to travel with TAP Portugal from Heathrow to Funchal primarily due to the proximity of LHR to their home address but also because the fares are significantly cheaper than the other airlines. The anomaly, however, we've found with TAP is that you can only pre-book your seats easily, more than 72 hrs ahead of the flights , if you opt for the TAP Basic ticket bracket rather than the TAP Discount bracket which has a significant difference in price of approx £50 each. The only way around this seems to be, on TAP's advice, is to make a "ghost booking" using a fictitious payment card number, to reserve 2 Discount bracket tickets for a maximum period of 24 hrs then submit a Medical Assessment Form to them duly signed by your GP and then, if the TAP doctor agrees with the need to have a seat with SOME extra legroom, but not in the emergency exit rows for obvious safety reasons, then they will pre-book you the necessary seats for you and won't have to pay the difference between the Discount and Basic fare brackets.....and then, of course, update your payment card details with them.

Hope this now makes better sense!

The other disparity between TAP fleet information and the online airline seat reviews from third party websites is which rows are best for extra legroom.....I thought I read somewhere that rows 1 and 2 were best in economy, apart from the obvious emergency exit rows, but TAP told me over the phone that rows 1 to 6 are Business/Executive Class only and that row 7 therefore has a curtain partition in front of it to separate the two classes......but seat plans online seem to contradict this!

The aircraft type is apparently an Airbus 319.

Can anyone assist further please?

mrtiggles,

The seating arrangements is as you've been told by the airline. Business class is at the front of the aircraft so row 7, with a curtain partition is the front of economy. I wouldnt go off third party seat plans, they're rarely accurate.

Darren

That makes things a bit clearer, Mr Tiggles, and thanks for coming back on. The big difference between airlines like Thomson and Monarch compared to TAP is their pricing model. With the exception of the extra legroom and the premium cabin if available Thomson and Monarch don't sell other tickets in different price bands with different conditions attached to them. Their pricing plan is based on offering a set number of tickets at the lowest price level to all passengers and once all tickets in that price band are sold, to start selling the next tranche of tickets to all passengers in the next price band up Plus they ask for a lower level of proof re the extent and even existence of the disability. It might be different now but the last time we travelled with Monarch, for example, they just accepted my word for it over the phone and with some other airlines we have just been asked for her Blue Badge number over the phone instead.

I think that you would have a hard case trying to prove that TAP are being discriminatory because they are entitled to ask for medical evidence if you are asking them to make a reasonable adjustment and the procedure that they have outlined to you would probably be regarded as a reasonable adjustment within the terms of the law as it stands in the UK. In other words, they are prepared to sell you a ticket in the Discount price band if you provide them with the required medical evidence and that they will then reserve the seat in advance of other passengers travelling on the same class of ticket. It might be worth pursuing with them whether they are prepared to issue you with the medical form in advance so that this can be completed by his GP and submitted at the time of booking so that you don't have to go through the dummy booking process?

In effect the probable reason why you are finding Thomson and Monarch prices more expensive than TAP's lowest price band is that they have streamlined their approach to meeting the additional needs of disabled passengers and have, as they are required to do, spread the costs of this across all passengers and simply don't offer a rock bottom discount price range to any passengers concurrent with other ticket pricing bands.

Only you can decide whether it is worth the hassle of pursuing buying a Discount price range ticket with TAP using the process they suggest or whether instead to book Basic price tickets for both peace of mind and to reserve the seats you want at the time of booking as all passengers buying that level of ticket can do or else go back to using an airline like Thomson or Monarch who do provide a more generous service than the minimum they are required by the letter of the law to provide.

SM

Many thanks to you both, Darren and SM, for your very thoughtful and comprehensive replies...it is greatly appreciated.

I think that we'll do as you've suggested, SM, and opt for the peace of mind approach by going for the TAP Basic fare bracket to ensure that we hopefully achieve the best possible seats. The medical forms are available to dowload on the TAP website but, of course, in the time it takes to get this completed by the GP and faxed back to TAP then assessed by their company medical adviser, the best seats could have been snapped up.....so had best get purchasing these tickets and pre-booking our seats.

Darren....I'm having trouble seeking out the Airbus 319 seat plan.....can you suggest the best way to source out the best seats for Economy Class please including the emergency exit ones.....which rows and seats are best?

Thanks again to you both

@mrtiggles -the other thing worth factoring into your price calculations, is that many GPs now charge for filling in forms/signing off -my daughter recently got charged £30 for a signature on a letter she actually composed and printed off,to allow her to carry special meds. for her baby on a Ryanair flight.

mrtiggles wrote:

Darren....I'm having trouble seeking out the Airbus 319 seat plan.....can you suggest the best way to source out the best seats for Economy Class please including the emergency exit ones.....which rows and seats are best?
:)

Have a look on Seat Guru. Exucutive (business class) are rows 1-6, economy are rows 7 aft. There are no 'best' seats, it's personal preference.

Darren