Apologies for the typo - I did of course mean the 1992 election. Voters born in 1974 of course wouldn't have been able to vote in 1972 and I have edited my post.

Whatever the tax arrangements of the Guardian Media Group (which owns more than just The Guardian), I assume you are referring to the way the tax liabilites were dealt with after they sold their share of Auto Trader? The Guardian newspaper itself is the highest tax payer in their sector which doesn't say much for the other newspaper proprietors. Also GMG is owned by the Scott Trust whose sole purpose is to ensure the future of the newspaper and it is barred from paying out dividends and is designed to ensure that no individuals personally benefit from its activities. Again rather different from the bulk of the newspaper industry, especially the Murdoch empire.

SM

Well Jeremy did it.| Stand by for a demonization blitz by the right wing press.

Yes he did! And on the first round too - it really does say volumes about how Labour supporters view Tony Blair's legacy and his intervention in this leadership election that Liz Kendall, the out and out Blairite candidate, polled less than 5% of the vote. With Jeremy Corbyn as leader they just might regain some of those lost Scottish seats in 2020.

SM

Quote Ive just read

" the reality today is that at a time when the country needs strong opposition to the Tories , Jeremy Corbyn leads a deeply and very bitterly divided party "

You might think that's a right wing press view
It's actually a quote from Nicola Sturgeon !!

I think that Nicola reckons that the only alternative from Tory rule is independence , Jeremy won't gain those lost Scottish seats back from her ,

He's a dreamer with a warped ideology, who has spent the last 30 odd years, sat on his own in a corner in parliament opposing just about everything. The only credible thing he every did was to oppose the Iraq war.

Some of the things he proposes to do, will be impossible unless we are out of the EU, absolutely a non starter.... I know that and he knows that, so I wish he'd stop making promises, suggestions or proposed policies that he cannot fulfil, because it's being bloody deceitful.
Scraping Trident and coming out of NATO,? Jeez we had to scramble RAF fighter jets the other day to warn off Russian planes over the North Sea.

Just supposing he did scrap Trident and we exit NATO, we would have to depend on the European Union Force for any defence of this island, so Jeremy is not going to give us the option of in/out of the EU.?

He wins the leadership race and then beggars off to the pub to sing "we'll keep the red flag flying here" and to the rally for more refugees.
The man's a dick head and that's coming from someone who detests the Tories with every bone in my body.

Jog on comrade.

Sanji x

andy66 wrote:

Quote Ive just read

" the reality today is that at a time when the country needs strong opposition to the Tories , Jeremy Corbyn leads a deeply and very bitterly divided party "

You might think that's a right wing press view
It's actually a quote from Nicola Sturgeon !!

I think that Nicola reckons that the only alternative from Tory rule is independence , Jeremy won't gain those lost Scottish seats back from her , ;)

Well she would say that wouldn't she? She knows that it is in the SNP's self-interest to have a Tory Government in power with the Labour opposition in disarray if she is to win another referendum. The last thing she wants is an united leftward leaning Labour Party led by someone who is not tainted by the Labour Party's tactics in the 'Yes' campaign. Don't forget the SNP had a majority in the Holyrood Parliament but lost the Referendum just the same. Disaffection with the Labour Party is not the same as a vote for Independence and she knows that very well. I bet that she really wanted Liz Kendall to win! A Labour Party led by her would never regain the ground in Scotland - one led by Jeremy Corbyn just might. After all a lot of his policies are the same as the SNP's.

SM

the reality today is that at a time when the country needs strong opposition to the Tories , Jeremy Corbyn leads a deeply and very bitterly divided party "

I agree and they'll be out in the wilderness for a very long time. They need to split and the spiv Blarites go one way and the red comrades the other way. The look on Chukka's face when the results were announced was priceless

I stopped voting for labour when that Welsh windbag, Kinnock, betrayed the miners, he later wrote in his memoirs that he regretted not doing more......it was a bit late and he will never be forgiven by the miners and their families. He's hated nearly as much as Thatcher around here.

Blair was the best Prime Minister that the Tories never had, I never voted for him because you couldn't put a cigarette paper between them.....last GE I voted for 'Save our NHS' party, it didn't stand a cat in hell's chance of winning, but at least I got off my bum and went and voted for something I believed in.

Ed Milliband is a thoroughly decent human being, he was a bit gawkish at times, I personally think he got better towards the end of the campaign, and whoever thought up that Moses stone thingy, they ought to be shot.
I've met him several times because whilst I don't live within the Doncaster boundary, I do shop in the nearby village which is within the Donny boundary and he's often in the high street, and Doncaster town centre itself.

Anyway, poor Ed, his heart was in the right place, but he made the mistake of promising to take on the non-doms and the Murdoch press.
That vile toad Murdoch released his dogs onto Ed, and whilst Ed must shoulder some of the blame, the whole Labour party must too. They allowed the Tories to spin lies that should have been squashed at every opportunity with facts.

They allowed the Tories with the aid of the Murdoch press to influence the population, things like it was Labour that tanked the economy and nothing about it being a global financial crisis, that started off in the USA with the sub-prime market.

The note about there being no money left, this was a standard joke and the Tories left similar notes too, but nobody mentioned that and Labour should have done, it sowed the propaganda that the Tory press exploited.

The Tories have borrowed more money in three years than the Labour party did in their entire history....we're now looking at £1,36 trillion in debt and austerity still being implemented, so anybody who tells me that Georgie the towel folder is doing a good job, is deluded.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

What's the answer? I do not know, but it certainly isn't carrying on as we are now....civil war maybe?

Sanji x

It's all very well scoffing , well she would say that , but whatever she said at the last election she managed to get her point across and actually ACHIEVE a result she wanted . Its all very well saying " popular " things , it's getting people to believe them though . People have to believe you have a credible plan on how you're going to achieve what you say .
I hear very clearly what Corbyn is saying and I would agree with his points when he says he want equality and taxing the rich more , I would be stupid if I thought that I didn't want better equality , but I want to hear clear and reasoned and costed ways about how he is going to achieve this , singing and waving the red flag doesn't do it for me , and I suspect many others , as I've said before I'm a floating voter , with no allegiance and no desire to pay a £3 membership either ! I want to be able to choose and vote for a government who can lead the country in a fair and credible way and all I see is people either in the pockets of the unions , banks and media as the choices before me ,

I just dont see Corbyn being able to deliver an electable government , it's going to be a struggle for him to even present a shadow cabinet !

The note about there being no money left, this was a standard joke and the Tories left similar notes too, but nobody mentioned that and Labour should have done, it sowed the propaganda that the Tory press exploited.

Agree with that Sanji Ed should have asked Cameron how much would be left in the kitty for the next incumbent if he lost the election, the answer would be the same nothing there isn't a pile of money just a load of debts.

What's the answer? I do not know, but it certainly isn't carrying on as we are now....civil war maybe?

If Corbyn does become Prime Minister a right wing coup???

andy66 wrote:

It's all very well scoffing , well she would say that , but whatever she said at the last election she managed to get her point across and actually ACHIEVE a result she wanted .

I assume that you are talking about the 2015 Westminster Election? In which case all she had to do was convince the electorate that she wasn't a Tory nor a New Labourite. In other words the SNP swept the board because in so many seats it was the only way to register dissatisfaction at not having a truly socialist party to vote for. That's why she's worried and her eye is now the 2016 Holyrood election - one in which she cannot sweep the board when it comes to the actual numbers of MSPs because of the list system. It will be a bit of Litmus test for her but it is clear from today's media reports that a major plank of the SNP's maninfesto will be the droppping of the idea of last year's vote being a 'once in a generation event' and putting forward a proposal for a new referendum.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/13/nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-considering-second-independence-vote

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/1328582-snp-holyrood-manifesto-will-include-timescale-for-second-referendum/

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13716894.Sturgeon_confirms_SNP_manifesto_will_set_out__triggers__for_second_referendum/

The fact remains that it is in her interests for the Labour Party not to unite behind Corbyn and for her to be able to rubbish him between now and May 2016. I think there is little doubt that she will triumph this coming May - there is no way that the Labour Party will be able to regroup and unite behind Kezia Dugdale and Jeremy Corbyn by then but there is less certainty that they won't before 2020. However, it won't be lost on her or most people in Scottish politics that for the first time since its creation the Scottish electorate will be voting in May 2020 for both the Holyrood and Westminster Parliaments. Whether these polls will be conducted on the same day or not remains to be seen but both her fixed 4 year term and David Cameron's fixed 5 year term will be up in the same month.

I think it is significant that all the media reports are about holding a 2nd Independence referendum before 2021 if they win in 2016 which conveniently dooesn't commit her to holding it within the life of the next Holyrood Parliament. I can envisage that her ideal scenario is for the Tories (led by whoever succeeds David Cameron) to win a resounding majority at Westminister and her to do the same at Holyrood as well as retaining all the seats taken from Labour at Westminister in 2020 followed fairly quickly by a 2nd Independence Referendum.

SM