our project is to offer the views of the holidaymakers by presenting the real facts.

Would you like to tell us all who you are working for.?

sanji xxx

Certainly Sanji

I am working as part of a 4 person team who all have to complete an in depth presentation as part of a university masters course.

The task as presented to us, is to gauge and research the views of general consumers in any chosen market place on certain topics. We have chosen to research the topic as detailed in my previous post, and present (as part of our directions) a case to the relevant authority to try to understand their views on whether they feel the same levels of concern as their consumers, and whether they feel that there is any way that they can accomodate the views of the same.

Regards

My understanding of the situation is that crime, not only on the beaches, but also throughout certain European countries has risen because of the levels of immigration that has taken place in the last few years.
If you take Spain for an example, the country has suffered an influx of immigrants from Eastern Europe, especially Albania, Romania and Morocco.
There is no social benefit for these people, the majority of whom are illegal and who therefore have to rob, swindle, steal and even kill to survive.

They are opportunist thieves, who will operate when the holidaymaker is more vulnerable, IE: intoxicated or stupid enough to leave their belongings unattended on the beach.
The police are undermanned and overstretched with more important tasks like catching bank robbers, card fr*ud gangs, money laundering and drug suppliers, all of which have increased in numbers and must also be accredited to immigration, plus apprehending the illegal immigrants at ports and certain points of entry, like Cadiz and the Straits of Gibraltar in southern Spain.
The cases of prostitution have also risen, many of these woman again from Albania/Romania, have a drug habit that working the night shift will not fund, so, beach theft is another source of finance for their habit, along with purse snatching from handbags in crowded places in popular tourist venues.eg: markets.

I think petty crime is well down the list of priorities, and reporting the incident for insurance purposes seems to be the norm.
I think it is not a case of treating the symptoms, but treating the disease at source, and apart from employing more beach patrols, educating people about their responsibility in respect of their valuables and personal health/welfare abroad, then I really cannot see what the authorities can do about the problem.
Whilst the authorities have an obligation to protect the public at large, the onus must rest with the individual, to take all reasonable measures to prevent his/her belongings being stolen.

We live in a big bad world

Besos xxx
sanJi

Hi The Research Lab :-)

Quote:

<<The level of crime on many beaches has risen over the last 2 years and only now are local authorities beginning to recognise the problem, our project is to offer the views of the holidaymakers by presenting the real facts. >>

As you are doing a Master's level course I am surprised that you are equating holidaymakers 'views' with the 'real facts'. I think that the idea of contrasting holidaymakers perceptions and the levels of concern they experience about beach crime with the perceptions of authorities and whether they share the concerns of holidaymakers is a really interesting one but mainly because we are dealing with the subjective in these matters rather than facts.

This is especially important in relation to crime and peoples' perceptions of it. For example, the people who express the highest level of concern about the likelihood of being victims of street crime are usually elderly women. This fear keeps them off the streets, especially after dark and hence they are actually one of the lowest groups to feature in the statistics for street crime. The fact that they are removing themselves from the situation means that we cannot really test out their perceptions. It would hardly be ethical to send out elderly women alone on to the streets after dark and test out whether they do get mugged or not and whether they really are more likely to get mugged than other groups!

The reality of actual incidents of street crime and violence as any A&E staff on duty on a Saturday night in our big cities will testify is that it is actually the young men that the elderly women are afraid of who are most likely to be the victims of such crime. Why? Because they are the ones actually on the street, the ones whose judgements about what is and isn't safe are most likely to be clouded by alcohol and most likely to pick a fight in the first place. They are also the ones who are most likely to be carrying the state of the art mobiles and iPods that make them attractive victims of street theft. But above all what probably puts them at risk is their belief that it won't happen to them - with the result that they don't think twice about putting themselves in a position where it IS very likely to happen to them.

I'm also sure that you are aware that a correlation doesn't equal cause and effect. Illegal immigration into Europe may well have increased in the last few years alongside the increase in reported beach crime, but this doesn't illustrate a causal effect any more than the fact that in this same time frame airfares to mediterranean holiday destinations have tumbled and more people can afford to travel there than ever before. An alternative theory could be that there are simply more people on holiday beaches who leave valuables lying around to be stolen.

I don't have any views one or the other to offer on your actual topic because it's not something I've had happen to me but my own research interests focus on people's perceptions of issues and the way they make sense of their experiences and theorise them from different standpoints and perspectives so I would be interested in knowing more about your research and your findings once you have completed your project - as would many others on this forum I'm sure.

SM

that it is actually the young men that the elderly women are afraid of

Can you please let me know on what evidence do you base that statement?

Because they are the ones actually on the street, the ones whose judgements about what is and isn't safe are most likely to be clouded by alcohol and most likely to pick a fight in the first place

That statement can apply equally to young females. They go out pubbing and clubbing just as much as young males do.

So you see, I do not agree with you. Young females can be just as intimidating and agressive these days as young men. Have you heard some of the abusive foul language they use? Elderly people are at risk of being both verbally abused and physically mugged by young males and young females. Its a sad fact of life now but there is very litle discipline these days, and no effective forms of punishment.

Illegal immigration into Europe may well have increased in the last few years alongside the increase in reported beach crime, but this doesn't illustrate a causal effect any more than the fact that in this same time frame airfares to mediterranean holiday destinations have tumbled and more people can afford to travel there than ever before

I can only refer to Spain, this is a country that I have travelled within since the early 1980s until today, and feel able to express an opinion about, having taken a daily interest in the country`s affairs.
If you research by reading the Spanish newspapers, you will learn that when these criminals are caught and brought to justice, that they are invariably from Eastern Europe or Morocco, Immigration has had an effect on the number of crimes committed, and this has to be an important element to consider.
Many of the Costas were actually more busier 10 years ago than they are today, because of longhaul flights, faraway destinations and low cost airfares which are now available and more appealing to todays consumer than ever before....especially when you can go to Goa for the same price and in some cases cheaper than the Spanish Costas.

I`m sorry, but if beach crime has risen, than you have to look at who is perpetrating these crimes, regardless of whether there is 100 or 1,000 people on the beach....and the reason why.
Well, in respect to Spain, they have to rob to live....and if you are going to lift one purse, then you might as well lift 20, because you will get the same punishment regardless.

besos xx
Sanji

A good starting point for anyone interested in checking out the research in this area and just who is most likely to be a victim of street crime compared to who perceives themselves to be at risk would be the British Crime Survey which is published on a regular basis and available through the Home Office website. For research on the perceptions of the elderly of their risk of being a victim of street crime then Age Concern has commissioned research which is also available in summarised form via their website. Also, the Superintendents Association has come to broadly similar conclusions too.

I can also cite academic research which supports the same conclusions I referred to in my post above but most of these cannot be accessed by the general public, only being available via passworded, subscription systems. However, my experience as an academic researcher has been that where the research data does not coincide with people's preceptions based on their own experience there is little point in trying to shift their viewpoint precisely because most of us don't form our preceptions on the basis of rational processes or the credible research data.

And, yes, I do discount newspapers as reliable sources of information about these matters - they print what they think their readers want to read about and some newspapers are very clearly pandering to their readers' prejudices. I'm with the Commissioner for the Metropolitan Police on this one when he asked why the Soham case generated so much more media attention than other comparable cases of black childen being abducted and murdered and whether this had anything to do with institutional racism on their part. He could equally have asked why cases where children are murdered by strangers (between 5 and 8 per year for the last decade) attract heavy press coverage whereas cases of children being murdered by a family member (anything up to 200 per year) often pass unreported in the national press and at most are only reported on by the local press if at all.

The interesting thing about the proposed research that started this thread off is that the explanation of the research appears to suggest that the researchers conducting it are unclear about the difference between 'facts' and 'perceptions'. This is a common misconception amongst the general public but a surprising one to find amongst Masters' level students, hence my original reply. Sanji, BenidormHerICome and I all form our perceptions on different foundations and are unlikely to ever agree, therefore, on what the 'facts' of these issues are. I will never be off the opinion that what newspapers choose to report and the way they report constitutes reliable data for anything other than research into what they do and don't choose to report. Similarly, with the theories that people offer to explain what they personally have experienced or read about. Without credible and valid research data these remain nothing more than theories and on their own don't become 'facts' either.

SM

SM, it was once said that there are only 2 things newspapers get right one is the name of the paper and the other the price,[ they cant always get the date correct],as for research this is also very often faulty due to the way questions are loaded.

as a famous Yank once said there are 3 types of lie ...... a lie a dame lie and statistics

wizard (own opinion)

Newspapers do have their uses you know. You can't beat the taste of chips eaten out of newspapers!! And if you run out of toilet paper, well a good old newspaper will get you out of trouble. Newspapers are also excellent for cleaning windows. Its the ink you see, acts like a kind of polish.

Apart from that, I never believe anything I read in newspapers. I certainly would not take any notice of any so called research undertaken by a newspaper, thats for sure.

I hope I am intelligent enough to form an opinion, without the need of the newspapers to determine my views, However whether you regard the newspapers as having an hidden agenda or not, the fact is that in Spain, illegal immigrants have pushed the crime incidents up.
It has nothing to do with having racist motives, it is just a fact, that they have nothing to live on...only fresh air, so they are commiting crimes. end of!
Neither would I rely on data fed into a computer by a human, which can also be flawed, manipulated, and adjusted....and in the case of the government, invariably is.

most of us don't form our preceptions on the basis of rational processes or the credible research data

Some of us live in the real world and are quite capable of forming an unbiased opinion about events that happen before our eyes.
I personally don`t need any computer with data, which like Wizard has stated, the data can be flawed by the questions asked in the first place.....giving me statistics that are as useless as a bat without a ball.

Humans and their experiences are more important, otherwise why did the poster need opinions if he could just go look it up on a data base.?
Statistics are what people have become, I am a number fed into a machine.?

Sanji xxxx

the data can be flawed by the questions asked in the first place.....giving me statistics that are as useless as a bat without a ball.

Or as useful as a chocolate fire guard