Paulus38,

My advice would be to talk to a specialist travel lawyer, I can highly recommend Ros Fernihough on 01922 621114. She will, in the first instance, provide professional advice.

I honestly don't see how BMI can absolve themselves of any responsibility simply by providing an alternate flight within 7 days - they had a contract to get you and your party from Cork To Birmingham on a specific date. Why could BMI not have transferred your booking to Aer Lingus ?

I'm also confused by the 1.29 euro exchange rate you refer to. Who applied this rate - Aer Lingus when you purchased the new tickets or BMI when calculating your refund ?

I can say that the Pound/Euro exchange rate (business rate) has been about 147-149 euros to the pound for several weeks now. When I purchase goods in France (as I did in early Oct) using a cr. card I'm charged the 1.48 type rate plus, typically, a 2.5% foreign currentcy exhange rate which generally equates to a true conversion rate of about 1.42 - 1.43 euros to the pound.

I'd ring Ros a.s.a.p. to determine your legal position.

Do please keep us updated as to the outcome.

Mike

Sorry to hear this Paulus. It seems to be happening more and more with BMI. (We were due to fly to Paris this coming Saturday with BMI, returning on Tuesday the 28th. We had a hotel booked and they cancelled both our flights as they pulled out of Durham Tees Airport. I found this out when we came from our holiday in September to an email and a refund in the bank! Luckily we had only paid a deposit to the hotel and as it was within the cancellation they gave us a refund)

Mike's right - I don't see how they could seriously think an alternative flight within 7 days is acceptable. It isn't - not when you have specific plans, hotels booked etc. How didn't they know they weren't stranding you there?
I do hope you Ros can offer you some advice. Good luck.

This I`m afraid is how the Lo-Co`s work.Ryanair does it all the time and have left people stranded in the middle of nowhere for a week on numerous occasions.If you check the conditions of carriage for Bmi Baby(travelling with them to malaga in January) they state that if the flight is cancelled all they will do is offer you the next available flight or a flight on another of their services or a refund.They go on to say this is their ONLY liability to you the customer.On no account will they transfer your booking to another carrier.
Sure the schedule carriers have much better terms and conditions but higher prices...I`ve got my fingers crossed but you pays your money and all that...

EC261/2004 regulations were specifically introduced to address this kind of problem and were designed to strengthen previous accords such as the Montreal and Warsaw conventions.

This however is the area that I'm keen to get a better understanding of and would welcome some feedback from authoratative sources.

Can a carrier simply limit their liability by printing such limits in a brochure/on a web site etc? Do such limitations override regs such as those defined in EC261/2004 ?

I'd guess not - but the deveil is in the interpretation.

I'd see a flight booking as a contract between a carrier and a passenger and that contract is sealed when the flight is paid for - often wehn booked with these lo-co's.

Now, failing to undertake their part of the contract is a clear breach and leaves the lo-co open to leagal claims. Certainly, you can reclaim the cost of the tickets from the cr. card company if you've paid by cr. card - and we now know that Visa debit card payments are similarly covered.

Incidental costs should also apply and this would, in my opinion, include the cost of sourcing an alternate flight on as near a time as possible to that originally booked - keeping an eye on mitigation of costs so as not to unduly burden the lo-co with unwaranted costs.

The lo-co can of course elect to transport you from A to B by ANY means available - including car, bus, train, ferry - this is laid out in previous conventions.

But who gave them the right to simply cancel without any further liability than to repay the cost of the flight ?

Rant over.

Look forward to hard facts from anyone in the know please.

Mike

Whilst I understand and agree with what Mike is saying, Paully, in his posting, advises us what it says in the T&Cs.

These are something that we keep telling people are all important.

They could be construed to be unfair, but, until someone takes them to court and gets a ruling saying that, then, in my opinion, BMI (and any other LoCo) are within their rights..

This is just another example of how badly regulated travel is.

There is no doubt that the whole thing needs overhauling, yet I see no chance of it being for many years.

We do need to consider that it is not only English/Scottish/British law but all the other countries. Unless they are, to use the overused phrase " All singing from the same hymn sheet" then nothing will change.

These companies are international, and will use all their considerable influence to ensure that the law that we need will never apply to them.

fwh

FWH

You are absolutely right in what you say.I also think that the conditions are unfair and restrictive, but as the law stands at present,those conditions are the law.
For that and other reasons ,this will be one of my last flights as we are returning to the civilised and far more regulated world of the ferries.Better service,open and transparent pricing,no nasty surprises at check in and now low cost themselves.Interestingly the decline in ferry use has been halted and numbers are increasing...might this be at the expense of the Lo-Co`s ??? I wonder why...

The stuff below is taken from EC261/2004.

Article 15
Exclusion of waiver
1. Obligations vis-à-vis passengers pursuant to this Regulation
may not be limited or waived, notably by a derogation
or restrictive clause in the contract of carriage.
2. If, nevertheless, such a derogation or restrictive clause is
applied in respect of a passenger, or if the passenger is not
correctly informed of his rights and for that reason has
accepted compensation which is inferior to that provided for in
this Regulation, the passenger shall still be entitled to take the
necessary proceedings before the competent courts or bodies in
order to obtain additional compensation.

I re-read the relevant articles (5 - cancellation and 8 & 9 relating to redress) and I believe that for the period of time between the original scheduled departure and the offered replacement flight (one week) the lo-co will be liable for accommodatuon, food and drink (non-alcoholic) for the whole of that period should a passenger accept the proferred replacement flight.

I'd love somebody with the flexibility and time to accept such a replacement and then to demand the above stated "hospitality".

Article 15 above indicates that restrictive clauses in the contract will not be honoured. Clause 2 in particular seems to grant the passenger the right to take the matter to court. In this particular example Paulus38 does not tell us if his rights were clearly stated at the time of cancellation by the Lo-Co. If no such information was provided he has a clear legal case....... in my opinion, of course

Mike

Again we come back to the T&Cs upon which BMI and others rely in their defence.

Are they demonstrably unfair?

Should someone complain to the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) then I would think that they would say that they are.

Ryanair against whom we have seen many complaints here on HT, have recently been forced to change their ways because of complaints.

The Air Transport Users Council is calling for LoCo operators to be made to quote the full price. A Report this week from MPs has also come out in favour of a change.

As several of us keep saying here on HT we can only express our personal opinions - lots of people agree, but it needs someone to take that step and make a formal complaint.

fwh

You are correct fwh.

I'll let somebody else chase the OFT however, my last broadside to them re. a US based multi-national abusing (in my opinion) their dominant position in a certain electronics supply market, fell on stony ground.

Mike

what iit with bmi baby i flew northern ireland/ ireland to uk 7 times last year once was withbmi baby and the return flight was cancelled had to sit in manchester airport for 6 hours got a coffee and free sandwich so thats allright filled in the compo forms and heard nothing. funny when i flew belfast to london the only cancelled flight on the departures board was a bmi baby flight. guess what i'm not flying with them again.