I suspect you are on a loser here. You are not entitled to compensation for delays unless they were caused by

overbooking
or
flight cancellation

Even then if the reason was due to reasons beyond the airline's control (eg weather) there is no compensation. Given the date you mention I assume that fog was the underlying reason. If your complaint is that 'your' aircraft was diverted to another flight I would think that that's dodgy ground - I would have thought that an airline is entitled to do this if it's operationally more effective. I doubt if there is actually such a thing as 'your' aircraft.

There's no reason not to complain though - you might get an ex gratia payment.

Perhaps if you were to post some details of your complaint then members may be able to assist.

Claiming that someone "Lied" is not of any help. Should you make such a comment in your claim it will not help your case. It is also a slanderous statement.

There may be a very good reason for the delay, weather has already been suggested. Problems at one airport can have a knock on effect out of all proportion to the original problem.

It is also possible that a member of HT was also affected by the delay and has more information.

fwh

fwh makes several good points.

I have some sympathy though with martynh99 is so far as I feel airlines often do juggle planes around for their advantage, often to the detriment of their passengers.

You might be able to obtain infor from the Civil Aviation Authority - try contacting them here:

Civil Aviation Authority
CAA House
45-59 Kingsway
London
WC2B 6TE
T: 020 7379 7311 (This telephone number can also be used for all out of hours emergencies)

Directorate of Airspace Policy
CAA House
45-59 Kingsway
London
WC2B 6TE
T: 020 7453 6599
F: 020 7453 6593

Consumer Protection Group
CAA House
45-59 Kingsway
London
WC2B 6TE
T: 020 7453 6430
F: 020 7453 6431

I would be careful how you phrase any request you might make to them. Do explain that you intend to take legal action against the airline and you need this info. too support your court case.

Try to keep an open mind until you have more facts.

Re. compensation, deetee is partially correct (only partially though). If you can post a more fullsome explanation of your situation I will try to provide some more ideas to support the claim you may be able to make.

We were due to fly on the 8:25 flight out of Man. We pulled away from the terminal at 8:45 on a new slot and got 50 yards from terminal and the pilot announced technical probs. Eng arrived and we were told 15 - 30 minutes to fix.
Long story short, after lots of promises of getting away soon and coaches to take us back to the terminal, they announced a spare plane was available at 12:00 and we would transfer to that one.
By this time, with almost 4 hours of no aircon (electrical problems) my wife was too ill to fly. We got off the plane at 12:15 and were rushed back through customs and out of the airport. On the way we were told by Servisair there were no more flights that day and to call cust services.
We did this in the carpark and found out there were flights and got on the next plane for £260 for the 4 of us.

When we got to the departures lounge, we found out it was the 11:55 flight(we were sold tickets at 2pm) and it was delayed. We go on the plane about 16:15 and found it was the same plane we had sat for 4 hours on that morning !!

The pilot then announced sorry for the delay as the plane had technical problems preventing them leaving at 11:55.

So there you have it, FCA switched planes at the 4 hour point as they knew it was going to take longer to fix thus delaying 2 flights to avoid the 5 hour cutoff for offering refunds to passengers.

During the 4 hours sat on the plane, we were only offered smal drinks of water and that was only after about 3 hours sat in the heat.

My wife was offered no medical attention when we got off the plane and we were offered no assistance in the airport or refreshments.

Finding it a little difficult to follow exactly the sequence of events here Martynh99.
The technical fault that kept you on the original plane between about 8:00am and midday will be hard to argue against. These things do happen. I do however feel that keeping you on the aircraft with only water being offered is naff - but again, if they really believed the fix could be achieved quickly it would make for a faster departure ultimately.

I think things went belly-up when they removed your from the aircraft at about midday. I accept your wife might have been unwell at that time but did you point this out to the cabin staff whilst still on the plane?

When you were returned to the terminal did you seek assistance from FCA or their agents for your wife?

I presume that all the other passengers were transferred at about that time and I also presume they departed some time that afternoon.

You, having paid £260 for the 4 of you found that you were able to fly that same day - on the very plane that suffered the earlier technical fault, but with the passengers from the second flight delayed as a result of "their" plane having been used to fly your fellow passengers earlier.

Let me put this to you.

FCA realised they could not fix the initial problem quickly enough and decided to move passengers from flight A (tech fault) to Flight B. This ensured flight A passengers left late, but not too late. Meanwhile, flight B passengers are also delayed as the plane they should have used departed with group A earlier. Group B suffered a delay of perhaps 4 hours as well.

You presumably want some compensation.

You refused to switch from A to B along with all your fellow passengers on the basis of your wife's illness - yet sought no medical assistance for such. Shortly afterwards you checked availability, found a flight and agreed to pay the charge of £260.

You were dismayed by the second delay.

I don't think you have snowballs chance in hell of recovering anything from FCA. The 5 hour cutoff you refer to is described in more detail in EC261/2004 regulations and is based in part on the distance being flown and the time delayed. You are likely to get refreshments and food as appropriate and overnight accommodation where the delay merits such.

If you were booked on a package tour and the delay in arriving at your resort destination is considerable (say, you lost one night in resort or a whole day - or almost) then you can claim for that loss against the Tour Operator (not the carrier). The Carrier is responsible for the food, drink, accomm. etc during the flight delay.

FCA probably made the mistake of not keeping you informed during the on-board delay. If your wife was suffering during that time you should have brought this to the attention of the cbin staff and asked to be removed from the plane.

Hi,
My son's holiday was delayed by 11 hours last summer. He was put up at an hotel near the airport and flew out the following morning. after numerous letters back and fore between first choice and himself compensation was still refused eventhough he lost one night in resort and his holiday then amounted to a 6 night stay rather than 7 nights.

He pointed out that the To hadn't actually provided what he'd paid for and that he would be taking legal action. On reflection, he decided against this as it would not be financially viable to him to do so. FC stuck to their guns and he got nothing.

My point is, it is extremely hard to get a result unless you're prepared to drag out a claim which in a lot of circumstances is not worth the time or effort. Had the holiday cost more than the £350 that he'd paid, he'd probably have fought on.

Good Luck!

The standard cut off point for compensation re flight delays is usually 12 hours - this is maybe why FC wouldn't consider any compensation.

mikecunliffe, your summary is about right.

We did make it clear to the cabin staff that my wife was feeling unwell, all they did was offer paracetamol and water - we also made it clear after about 3 hours that we wanted to get off and not fly - it was about 1 hour later we were allowed off the plane.

Shirley h

Laithrope -v- Kuoni

This case centred upon the delayed arrival at the resort destination (outbound flight delay) of approx 1 day. Judge awarded one days compensation - of the entire package price and NOT just the flight element. He also awarded £50 to each pax for inconvenience etc.

This is the argument that Ros used (successfully- what a star she is) against Travel City Direct. You do have to be prepared to go to court though as the T.O. will try to call your bluff otherwise.

This only applies to packaged holidays and not flight only's.

Martynh99; I'd guess you'll receive no compensation as you decided not to travel on the alternate plane/flight FCA provided. I know it's lousy but they did get both groups off after a relatively short delay.

Glynis, I got the impression from my claim that the critical element was the loss of one night's accommodation at the resort destination. Our delay was 14.5 hours though and whilst we should have arrived at about 5:00pm we didn't get there until about 8:00am the next morning.

One fourteenth of the full package cost was a reasonably big amount - plus £50 per pax (7 of us) plus 4 bottles of duty free spirits purchased on the XL flight using the XL food/drink vouchers handed out during the delay at MAN airport. We found it difficult to use these vouchers even for water purchases from WH Smith.

Hi Mike,
You did offer the above advice to me at the time of complaint. Even after stating those facts my son was still refused any compensation. He would have possibly received something had he taken it all the way to court but as the entire cost of the package only amounted to £350, he felt it would be too stressful to continue, only to gain £50 (one seventh of the package price). The costs of phone calls and a cut for the lawyer would not have made it worthwhile.

Shirley h highlights something that lets many TOs and airlines off the hook. The compensation being claimed is so low that they consider it not cost effective.

People should consider that when making a claim to the court, then they are also entitled to claim costs involved in submitting the claim. If the claim is defended by the TO successfully, they will not hesitate to try to reclaim their costs. Dependent on the size of the claim there is often the possibility that they will just pay up. Sometimes it is not cost effective for them to defend.

It is unfortunate that many people do not proceed because of this.

fwh

Shirley h, thanks for reminding me that I'd offered the same advice at the outset...I suspected I had but purge my PM's ruthlessly

fwh, you are right with the concept of at least launching the case in the hope that the company will not defend it fully and will simply pay out shortly thereafter.

For this to work effectively there needs to be a firm belief held by the defendant that the plaintiff (you, the traveller) REALLY WILL lodge the court case.

This is likely to be the case if a specialist lawyer is involved on your behalf as the t.o. knows full well that a law firm will simply file proceedings as they are so familiar with the process ands the likely outcome. Often, a single letter from souch a lawyer can provide a result.

However, launching a county court action (often referred to as the "Small Claims Court") can now be undertaken on-line. I gather (not used the service myself) it's painless, efficient and environmentally friendly .

This site is a great starting point to ascertain if you are likely to have a valid claim (I'm not a lawyer but many on this site have sound opinion as to the rights and wrongs). If you can explain your case clearly and orderly on this site you're part way towards success.

If it looks reasonable, seek the professional opinion of Ros Fernihough.

But I firmly believe that if you can clearly describe your complaint, prove that you've complied with the t.op. rules and regulations, ascertain which points of law or rules apply (Tour Regs, EC261/2004, Consumer Credit Act etc) and point all this out to the t.op. you stand a better chance of being offered some recompense.

I guess I speak for all the regulars on this forum in offering our help and advice whenever we can.

This website gives relatively accurate details

http://www.flightstats.com

It's not very intuitive , basically register an account, use the box form at the top right to pick historical flights(this only lets you go back 2 days) then put the detail in of the flight number and airline, then at the bottom left of the screen, there is an option to pick historical flight info - click this and you can then go back further than 2 days.