Further to my post of the previous page and regarding the prices not going down to as low as they have before you need to consider the following:

1/ The price of fuel is 25% up from last year, making your flight 25% more expensive.
2/ The Euro is at it's lowest rate since it's introduction. European hoteliers need paying in Euros.
3/ I read in the Travel Mail yesterday that Thomson have cut capacity (cancelled flights and acomm allocations) by 10%, and Thomas Cook have sold 86% of their Summer holidays from May-Oct. They don't have the beds or flight seats to make it worth their while to flog cheap distressed stock.

Well said Q you are 100% right.

Yes I do see your point about fuel and the euro this year but you are still making a massive profit out of the price I mentioned. Im very grateful that I have had the net for years and been able to get massively reduced holidays with First Choice in the past. I wouldnt mind paying 2 k maybe for us in august but not 3k when it actually costs the tour operator more than a grand less to provide the holiday. Its not that I dont mind the company making profit , just not massive profits thats just greed.
I always though of First Choice as being the family company with well priced holidays , but now they are turning into Thomson fast. I ve already seen that next year FC are doing the same as Thomson and charging per case and meal and transfer etc. I know they did charge for all that before but it was all included in the price before, I preffered it as it was before. Anyway airports and airlines get a reduction on fuel because they mass buy it (I know they are trying to take this away from them at the mo , but it hasn't happened yet).

Here's an example of greed........Im looking at going to Halkidiki for a month next year in july/august school hols, going end of July and returning towards end of August. Thomson and First choice want over 2K for flights for 5 of us there and back for all of us , BA want 800 for all of us , so who am I likely to choose?
BA's fuel doesn't cost less than FC'S or Tui's does it?
Check it out if you dont believe me.

Re: The massive profits. I will again refer you to my post about household utilities. If service industries making profit really bothers you then you should start there.

I'm very glad you have found the BA flights cheaper, I'd 100% say go for it and get them booked if they are what you want, but as you are aware you will be unable to leave those seats last minute and get the same price. Plus they will need to be paid for in full and will be completely non- canx, non refund basis, I would imagine.

Next year there will be, worldwide, 60 MILLION less seats on scheduled airlines and around ANOTHER 10% less of charter seats especially with the mergers. Everyone can stamp their feet and pout and complain that "it's not fair" or a "rip off" but this is the way the industry is going. I have been working in retail travel sales for 13 years, both in Multiples and independant agencies and the market, "credit crunch" or not, was always going to arrive at this situation. Every year the tour ops have slashed seats and capacity until they have got to the point now that they have probably slightly LESS seats than they need at peak season(eg if you want a package from BRS or CWL to Benidorm this weekend you have no chance, fully booked) and they will continue to pare down their business where they can get maximum profit from minimum capacity.

As an aside, the agency I work for will actually beat any genuine on line First Choice price and will be grateful for the business. When you book a holiday with FC you are actually paying them MORE for the holiday than my agency would. That's how they make bigger profits with you booking online than you going to your friendly independant agent, giving them the business and creating jobs and services in your local area. If you look around you will find the highstreet ships selling most goods have sat up and taken notice of the web and will always be competitive, be it holidays, computers, TV's, clothes, anything.

PS, thanks, 50/50. I like to think I know what I'm talking about!

I really wouldnt like to say the exact website and location, if that is ok, but I work for the biggest independant chain of agencies in the country. We are not only in the business of travel, we also own supermarkets, funeral homes, childcare and car sales, banking and insurance, we are famous for our ethical policies and any profit the company makes goes back into the business and to our members, who also own the company. Anyone can be a member. I'm very proud of working for them.

Nicely put Agent Q
Kath x

Agent Q you give it away when you said the word ethical
The only thing with everyone merging and downsizing is that there will be less supply and therefore higher prices for a few. Also this may unknowingly cause the death of the package hol as this will open a window of opportunity for the no frill airlines such as easy and ryan. They will offer cheaper flights to the same places more often and people will use these instead and diy their hols. I know easy jet are adding more destinations all the time. I would hate to see the package hols disappear because of bad decisions.Its not about the money for some people its about being able to get the same for less, if you can get it cheaper people will. You only have to look at the amount of people who use the money saving forums and deal websites to get everything cheaper.

More power to people that do! I know I use those sites too.

Me too !

there is a slightly more hopefully view although the main companies have reduced the fleet by around 20% the bus services of the sky [Ryan air easy-jet etc] have started to look at destinations farther afield than they have traditionally served, this may put some of the free space back... I got caught myself this year, booked in may for October and couldn't get 4 seats to anywhere in Greece at reasonable times from any south east airport, my agent managed to me 4 seats out of Manchester at a good time

a good independent [and there are a few out there] will always work harder for you as they don't have the "well you have to buy our product" sentimentality, they will split their commission for a sale and are usually very Cooperative people

wizard

Bunny74 wrote:

So agent Q are you saying its ok to make a profit of 1k + out of me because its the main school hols , and i have no right to go on holiday?
Come on ! We are talking about quite a big profit margin and you know it. Anyway in general Im referring to the prices being a lot more expensive for First Choices hols in particular this year , possibly as a result of the merger with TUI. I know what they go down to normally every year and this year has seen a lot of expensive prices. I mean would you pay 3k plus to go on holiday for two weeks self catering ? I dont know many folk who would.

I would hardly think agent Q. is personally making a 1K profit out of you, or saying you are not entitled to a holiday, although as he says there is no God given right to one.

He is just the person who picks up the phone and trys to do his job to the best of his ability and get people the best deal that is available at the time they try and book, and probably gets a fair amount of abuse for his trouble, with people expecting a fortnight in August for next to nothing, like they could have got in June.

The travel industry is big business and operates on very tight margines. It isn't a big profit margin like you state as the companys accounts will cover a year not those two weeks you just happen to want to travel. Anybody who has an even rudimentary understanding of business studies would acknowledge that.

The more logical (realistic?) way to view it, is that holidays in the Summer break, Easter, Whitsun and Xmas are actually the correct price to keep the companys afloat on the stock exchange.

The holidays in Feb, June, Sept etc are being sold at a discount or sale price for those fortunate enough to be able to travel off peak.

How is that a rip-off ? If they didnt do it they would go out of business and there would be no package holidays.

It's what every company does sells things cheaper when business is slow.

Sorry I thought this topic was done with as it had finished in a grown up pleasant manner and we had all said our piece?
If you read ALL the previous posts, you would have read that I know how much my holiday is to diy it as I go every year normally (know how much flights are and the rooms as we know the hoteiler) and they was making 1k+ out of it thank you, and I never said Agent Q was personally making the profit, I said the holiday company was.
I know how it works thanks about the hols they sell cheaper at quieter periods and charge more at peak times, its not rocket science. However the point I was trying to make if you read all the posts , was that this year they had being selling the peak hols at higher prices than they usually do, not just a bit more because of fuel but a hell of a lot more. I only go away in School Hols because of children, so I know how much we normally pay.
I dont expect them to provide it at cost price, I said I would even pay up to two grand+ for them to provide a holiday that costs 1300-1500 to diy, however no one in there right might would pay 3k plus the asking price for that holiday, bearing in mind it is self catering.

I'm a SHE!!!

Thats what I thought ? I wonder why the poster thinks you're a guy?
Maybe its because your user name sounds like a spy, and so thought of James Bond perhaps?

AgentQ wrote:

I'm a SHE!!! :yikes

I'm really sorry. I don't know why I assume you were a guy. Even if it was because your username sounds like a spy, you could have been a female spy.

Apologies again and it's always nice to see a TA posting and giving us a bit of insight into how the industry works, we normally scare them off as a lot of folk see them as fair game to have a pop at.

Doe

It's ok, I forgive you!

If anyone fancies a pop they can go ahead. I really do know this job inside out and back to front now so I will answer most questions more than honestly. Some people just cant handle certain types of honesty is all!

The name's Q.. Agent Q.....

they was making 1k+ out of it thank you, and I never said Agent Q was personally making the profit, I said the holiday company was. I know how it works thanks about the hols they sell cheaper at quieter periods and charge more at peak times, its not rocket science.

You cannot look at one holiday in isolation in this way - a lot of the winter holidays are sold at a loss in order to keep hoteliers sweet and air crew in jobs. Yes, it might be unfair to make people who have to travel in the peak season pay higher prices to subsidise those who can pick up a late, cheap off-peak deal but that 1K+ is not net profit, it's gross profit on that one holiday alone and they'll be making little or no profit or even a loss on the out of season holidays and thus the average profit per holiday is going to be much, much lower over the full year.

And you're right it's not rocket science - it's much more difficult than that which is why those of us from outside the industry sometimes find it hard to get our heads around what is a very complex supply and demand model. Rocket science is actually very simple - it's the engineering which is extremely difficult and it's the same with the travel industry. Booking up your own one-off DIY holiday is actually very simple these days - it's an entirely different matter when it comes to the logistics of shifting millions of tourists around the globe at prices low enough to generate business whilst at the same time making enough profits to keep the shareholders happy with their dividend. If profits fall, dividends drop, shareholders sell up, the company loses equity, the banks call in the loans and/or lines of credit and another TO bites the dust leaving holidaymakers stranded and/or out of pocket.

As Micawber said 'Income £1, expenditure 19s 6d = happiness. Income £1, expenditure £1 6d = misery.' The 'science' of the holiday industry really is as simple as rocket science which is basic Newtonian physics 'for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction' as any GCSE student or even primary school kid who's made a rocket out of an empty plastic drinks bottle and fulled it with water and bi-carb will tell you. But it's the 'engineering' needed to put that science into practice on a large scale which is really complex and all Agent Q was trying to do is explain the 'engineering' of the industry to us all.

SM

2/ The Euro is at it's lowest rate since it's introduction. European hoteliers need paying in Euros.

With the major tour opeartors being european based these days with earnings be reported in Euro's the euro zone hotel pricing models are un effected. However with the stronger Euro verses the GBP, this has a negative impact on profit margins when packages are being sold in Sterling. The stronger Euro against the USD has helped to somewhat offset the increase cost of fuel due to forward fuel contracts being priced in USD.

Agent Q I think we may work for the same agency!
Are you currently using a new system???