i have taken literally dozens of other people's children to good restaurants with no problems what-so-ever, BUT, the children know very well just what standards I expect from them and that is the key to the success of doing this. I cannot tolerate unruly children in restaurants and have no time for their parents for allowing the behaviour either. If all parents ensured that their kids were well behaved, then i am sure that more good restaurants would make the families welcome

I don't have any issues with children going into pubs or restaurants at all - but as some of us have said in another thread, when they are badly behaved it's put's me off staying there and going back if I know young children are going to be there,

As already mentioned, half the time the parents don't chastise their children and don't appear to be bothered when their own little darlings are causing annoyance to other people.

I would also say not all children obviously

We do have a tendancy to not be very child friendly in the Uk.

Or another question, Do you want child free restaurants? I know what my answer would be...

I don't see a problem with having bars or restaurants that don't allow children on the premises, I do see a problem with how they can possibly survive without that income, especially rural establishments.

I am the parent of a 10 year old and a 13 year old and they know what is expected of them when we eat out; they sit at the table and eat their meal. That is what we expect of them at home too. We almost always sit at the table as a family to eat our evening meal, without the tv on. So many families just don't do that routinely now so the children don't know how to behave at a table. I remember house hunting a number of years ago and many of the houses we looked at either didn't have space for a table or if they had the space, there was no table.

We have a couple of newly opened establishments near to us. Both have a child friendly section with a couple of playthings and an outdoor play area for the nicer weather. The food isn't brilliant, but it's ok, so when we take the smaller grandchildren out 1& 2 I'd have no problem eating here. If we have the older grandchildren then we would go somewhere different and expect them to sit down and behave - as they've been brought up to do. If it was just hubby & I, then we'd probably go somewhere where we wouldn't encounter crowds of children. Saying that our local restaurant is as good as it gets, and there's always children in there

I agree very much with what you're saying Elaine , that was how I was brought up , we had to ask if we could leave the table etc , I remember always eating together as a family when we were young , things did change when we grew older and got jobs , we would be working different times / days .
I don't have kids but if I did I think I would bring them up the same as I was , but also it seems we now have a more informal attitude to eating / mealtimes , we now do sit with a tray watching TV while having our evening meal . I get the impression that other cultures / nations seem to view food as an important part of everyday life , while perhaps we have something to eat when it suits ?? We don't have a trad roast dinner on Sunday , perhaps many still do , we have one during the week when we are both on day off , we often have snacks or quick meals if we are working til late , so I do enjoy a more traditional style of dining when on holiday .

I think our bars / restaurants try to be more child friendly by having play areas , something to occupy the kids so they are not a nuisance , while for instance in foreign restaurants I've seen the adults keeping the children occupied and involving them in the family meal rather than having an area for them to be occupied , I think we are really just different cultures in this respect . I think parents just do what they feel is right and what they're comfortable with and everyone has their own view of what they think is ideal and suitable .

Funny enough Andy some of those points that you raise, that you were raised upon we still do. i.e. We eat together, we eat at a table - I detest eating meals off trays - I enjoy chatting about the day etc, and we do have a traditional Sunday Roast.

I do agree though, I don't think this is so much the 'norm' these days, eating off trays or even taking food back to the bedroom, as a young lady I work with does, seems to happen more and more

I think Andy has made a very good point and I think that the real question at the heart of this discussion is not whether bars and restaurants should be more child-friendly here in the UK but should we be bringing up our children in the UK differently? When I think of all the really child friendly cultures that I have visited and loved and especially the more latin cultures of southern Spain, Portugal and Cuba but also Crete and as far afield as China, the common denominator is that the 'family meal' with everybody sat down around the table is still part of daily life. As is the children eating exactly the same food as the adults. The 'Children's Menu' seems to be a uniquely British concept that I have only come across here in the UK or in places that are very specifically aimed at British tourists. Yes, in lots of places you can order a small portion for children or for that matter for anybody who doesn't want a big meal of anything on the menu which can be a godsend for many older people who don't want to eat fish fingers or sausage but don't want a groaningly huge portion either.

Cuba and Spain are all very child friendly in my experience and it seems that many who have contributed here feel the same but equally the sort of behaviour that I have often witnessed here in the UK simply wouldn't be tolerated either. Kids are always made welcome but its very easy to be welcoming of children as a restaurant or bar when you know that not just the parents but all the adults in a group will make sure that the children are either well behaved or if very young, played with and distracted etc so they don't get bored and run riot around the place. When I think about some of the worst instances of a meal or drink stop being ruined by other people's children here I have sometimes wished that the owner or manager had been less child friendly and had asked the family concerned to leave! There are times when I think that we have actually become too tolerant of what we are prepared to put up with in relation to the behaviour of children in public places.

SM

So perhaps we are TOO child friendly in this country?

I too was brought up to ask if I may leave the table after I'd eaten. I also had to hold my knife and fork properly and not like a 'brush and shovel', both had to be placed neatly on my plate once finished with. These rules were also enforced in my infant and junior schools.

Bad table manners also include not speaking with food in your mouth or 'clacking'. I despise with a vengeance being able to hear someone eating. Shudder.

I agree that it's a cultural thing, I've been in many a restaurant abroad where children have been out late of an evening with their families and haven't been any bother whatsoever. I've always thought how nice it was that children were out, as part of the group, late of an evening meandering up the promenade.

I'm not keen on children in pubs though. Outside in a beer garden is fine but it's a no no from me for them to be inside.

Except, Fiona, I wouldn't say that tolerating bad behaviour on the part of children and the parents who let their kids run riot and ruin other customers' enjoyment is being child friendly. I don't think we are doing children, or anybody for that matter, any favours in letting them think this is acceptable.

The only time I have stayed in an AI hotel was for 3 nights in Varadero after 2 weeks touring Cuba. It was one that was not just owned but run by the Government company and Cubans could stay there too. One very busy lunchtime I shared a table with a Cuban mum and her son and daughter who seemed to be the only children that weren't running around causing chaos in a busy crowded dining room. When the boy wanted to leave half the food on his plate and go and get an ice cream she told him he couldn't - she insisted that as he had taken that amount himself he had to either finish it off before having an ice cream or if he was too full to eat it then he must be too full to have an ice cream. Like all kids he had a whinge about this but he accepted it - no tantrum, no tears just a minor sulk that was soon over when she told him that the sooner he made up his mind about whether he was going to clear his plate or not the quicker they would be back at the pool. She pointed out to him that next time he should help himself to less, after all he could always go back to the buffet and help himself to more if still felt hungry.

So who was going to be the child who grew up into an adult that knew how to behave well when eating out and didn't waste food? Him or the tourist kids who were running riot and actually having a food fight sat at a table on their own without an adult in sight?

SM

yes SMa- I do agree with you. But I do think that some folks equate child friendly here with letting them do what they want.
I agree Glynis- I was brought up with table manners but if you were allowed to leave the table when you were younger and move around, you probably would have.
Perhaps we need child friendly restaurants who welcome children provdimg they stay at the table?

Pardon Fiona? Is it predictive text as I'm not understanding your post to me?

sometimes I type too quickly Have sorted.

We could leave the table once we'd finished eating, we just had to ask permission

I think part of the problem of children in pubs/ restaurants is not actually down to the children in themselves, as has been mentioned it is very often down to the shocking attitude of those adults that are supposed to be 'responsible' for looking after the children under their care.

Far too often those responsible and I use the word very loosely are no better at looking after themselves and behaving in an appropriate manner let alone look after a child and instil any sense of manners or respect in their brood. If their is any form of discipline it usually involves the adult shouting at the top of their voice at the child when they have done something that has annoyed them, usually that means having interrupted their drinking time.
Nothing is done to stop the kids running around with the associated hazards or being generally unruly unless it directly affects them.

We never allowed our children to run around in a restaurant or leave them unsupervised, they were shown how to behave at a table and I am proud to say they have grown up to be mannerly and respectful to others.
Our 3 year old granddaughter is exceptionally mannerly and already always ask to leave the table, she sits and behaves (most of the time) and is a pleasure to take out and never causes us or other patron any form of annoyance in a restaurant.

Children are only going to learn how to behave by the guidance and example set by their elders, unfortunately these simple manners and standards are now not being set let alone displayed in the society we now live, lets not kid ourselves the standards and behaviour we see will only steadily get worse as many parents themselves have no manners now.

That is exactly it Graham, and it's something that is quite scary. You see children dressed like adults or dolls, they are almost like an accessory, not a responsibility.

I always remember seeing a poster in the antenatal clinic, of a baby and underneath was written "All my tomorrow's depend on you" How true this is.