GeoffWill,

I well remember as youngster in the 1960's being brought up in a place adjacent to Saddleworth Moor, some farm houses that were off the beaten track had no utilities at all, water was drawn from a spring, there was no mains electricity although a generator did fire lighting to some cattle sheds. The introduction of mains fed utilities in the late 60's and early 70's made sure that the place was never the same again.

Playing "Devils Advocet" for a while (as I wouldnt want to be accused of going "off on one" or denying anyone an opinion here) lets just look at it as progress. Anything that improves the standard of living for those who live permantly in Crete, be it via the sale of land or a new block of Studios together with more local jobs surely has to be good .......................................................................... doesnt it?

Hi Craven

Far be it from me to deny anyone a better quality of life if the opportunity presents itself, but I'm not sure that the average Greek villager is doing that well out of this development, in much the same way that I don't benefit much myself when a property developer in UK buys up swathes of land to build a new estate. I guess that many of the local people own little more than the roof over their heads and a smallholding for their animals/crops. Of course there is some benefit for locals in terms of employment, but I'd suggest that this is a high price to pay when you see the decimation of local communities. Take a look at Cypus and the Spanish costas.

Hi GeofWill,

The opportunity for you to benefit from a developer buying up land is there, whether you take it is a different matter (developer invests in land, developer builds new estate, developer needs a workforce, more people move into estate .................... hey presto, with the influx of people there is suddenly a requirement for more shops, Taxis, M&E Engineers, B&CE Engineers, garages, window cleaners, Doctors, Florists, Garden centres, phew, the list is not exhaustive), its all growth.

Without the developer yes I would agree that the roof may be all they had, with a developer their opportunities have suddenly increased from nought to something better!

But would you rather they didnt have the "benefit of employment" as a result of the investment by developers in order for you to retain your idea of what Greece should be?

I returned back from Cyprus on Sat 25 Feb 2006 following a fleeting visit, having worked there in 1971 for 3 months, 1973 for a further 3 months, 1974 for 5 months and 1986 for 8 months I have seen many changes. Rest assured that the Greek Cypriots have done exceedingly well out of development and that is a fact and further more I would suspect that they would not change a thing! I would also suggest those Costa dwellers have done likewise!

We have been to Crete a number of times, the last being two years ago having regularly been there for about 6 years running. We stayed in Ag. Marina near Chania and loved it there and have some lovely memories and made some good friends who are living there now. I think a lot of the homes and hotels/apartments etc are very good compared to a lot of places, some are better than the ones we have in the UK. However, we stayed in Kolymbari the last time and drove along to Ag. Marina and was totally shocked at what we found. The previous years we had stayed in the Ekavi Suites overlooking the sea and just in front of the sea there were an old brickworks which was quite unsightly and did attract the gypsies for overnight stays but at least we could see all of the sea. Now, we found a HUGE hotel, Swiss I think built on that site. We were there in the September and they were just putting the foundations in - then we went back there in the following June and it was up and running in a very big way. We took a stroll to our favourite spot on the beach to find the whole of the beach was taken up by this hotels sunbeds and beach sports etc. The little cafe on the beach was swamped by this monstrosity now and had lost its charm, totally overtaken and probably lost some custom as the hotel had its own restaurant. It was very sad as it was not how we remembered it. Also there was now a crazy golf course and will become like Platanais further along the coast..

I know this all means work for the local people but it does seem to spoil what was once a lovely quiet resort and has now been taken over by the 'big boys'. As their work is all seasonal too they need to earn as much as they can during the holiday months as there is not much work otherwise, unless supplying other needs like chemists, florist, garages, supermarkets etc for the locals.

Needless to say, I couldnt go back to stay in Ag Marina, only to visit friends, so the last two years we have been to Corfu.

They are proposing to build a container port in the south, with money coming from china, building a new airport near heraklion and chania will become a 24 hour airport.

http://www.explorecrete.com

ian

A lot of 'average Greek villagers' are benefiting from these developments as they are the ones selling the land.

Keith

Where abouts in the south? Is it near Ireapetra (spelt wrong I know) as we dont like it there anyway. 24 hr Chania airport - will it mean flights might be cheaper!

If you think all this development is good, take at look at http://www.interkriti.gr/cgi-bin/com/f2.cgi?01/3795 to get the latest, including details of plands for an oil tanker depot at 'unspoilt' Kokkino Horio. Also some interesting chat included from sources like Greenpeace, who outline the dangers of this timebomb far better than I could.

Interesting reading! I like to know what is going on in Crete too.

May seem a bit pedantic but it is US that are doing the spoiling. The developers are only giving US what WE want.

Not many years ago we were happy with Blackpool and Bogner.

As foreign travel has developed we quickly exhaust these places and demand more and more.

You may not like the idea of devloping a tanker depot but are you happy not to have all the luxuries that you take for granted?

We are making a bigger mess of some of these places than we have managed to do here at home.

I often read complaints that they were building when we were there. Does everybody think these hotels, apartments, bars etc just appear by magic?

fwh

Well said!

I love Crete (I even love Heraklion), but I accept it and Greece as it now is not as it was when I first started going in 1985. The rubbish cart man in Lesvos with his horse and cart was much more picturesque than the wheeliebin lorries now in use....but I'm sure he and his customers prefer the more modern, less smelly version!

The blots on the landscape that I DO find it difficult to live with are not the ones which make locals live easier or more prosperous (, but the ones being built with an eye to the ex-pat market - the housing estates in the Apokoronas are a case in point. OK the local economy gets a boost from the disposable income - but have you seen how much property prices in Crete have risen over the last few years? At this rate the old Greek housing system of "build extra onto the family house for the kids to have when the marry" will continue forever.

And what is wrong with Bognor ??

Interesting topic! I think we all need to be careful here and not come over as patronising Brits who are simply interested for selfish reasons. New hotels, new property and improved infrastructure can only be good news for the Cretans, as all will bring a major boost to the economy. Afraid to say it but our 2 weeks each summer are insignificant compared to a lifetime in Greece and many years of limited opportunity.

On one of the Turkish Boards (Hisaronu Online I think) there was a similar argument/debate where many holiday makers/second home owners were against the Turkish entry into Europe and why, all because it would involve a perceived price hike when the Euro was introduced. "I'm allright Jack" attitudes are becoming ever so British!

We have many flaws with the "progress" made in this country over the last 40 or so years (New Labour, Political Correctness, Arcitecture (what is that Welsh Assembly Building all about), ever rising utility costs, fat cat bonuses, the NHS, cheap air travel etc) but I wouldnt want to go back to life in the 60's based on our ideas of quaintness, which is usually retained in memory on hot summer days only!

The Greeks have every right to expand, have a few more enterprising get rich quick people and improve their lot, if we dont like it we should simply push off elsewhere for our annual 2 week holiday.

Lets think seriously, do we want to preserve our well earned 2 weeks of bliss during high summer at the expense of anothers chance to improve his/her lifestyle. Crete is still a beautiful place and has many quiet, quirky and quaint resorts that I suspect will be for ever preserved. Complaining about new build hotels and improved infrastructure in someone elses country is patronising at best so lets take care.

Speaking of beautiful places, check this link out

http://www.west-crete.com/crete-daily-photo.shtm

Hi Locker,

Even with it being overcast, its a fine example of those areas of beauty that will be preserved for ever.

this posting was one of the modules i had in university as a general idea. the argument among the students took for ages and there was no conclusion. this is why i will reply as a greek who once was in the uk and works in tourism (bad idea as i never get to have holidays ).
the village where i live was in the 80s just a small village near by the sea with lots of green areas, a few shops, a couple of tavernas and a few accommodations. those that were working in tourism were at their best as it was easy and lots of money.
now days there are still green areas (due to archeological restrictions in half the area) and the village after a small glory period with lots and lots of different accommodation available is going downhill based on the number of arrivals. there are lots of empty accommodation (not my fault if they just build small boxes insted of proper houses) tavernas closing down, and the number of bars is counted in my right hand.
we had a lot of people visiting our village every year as they liked it there. now days we no longer have that many repeat tourists. what we have now is foreign permanent residents. half of them are the ones that have made their family with greeks . the other half are those that moved in the last few year . some are families with young kids (now that is fun if you are child to be send in a greek school when you dont speak the language ) and others are just pentioners.
So my village at the moment is living off from the xenous (foreigners) permanent residents, those that visit them and the few tourists we have.

the above is not always the same but its a typical cycle of the life of a tourism resort. when it start dying it has to make a change to survive. mine 'choose' or was 'choosen' for that way.

the possitives: the village is not getting old as new people are comming and families continue to live there. the income remains the same or at least does not drop a lot. things like infranstracture is improving. people get to have their works. new things like sociocultural are added changing our old ways of thinking.
the negative: prices of land and houses are booming. areas of natural beauty are distroed in the name of housing development and infrastructre to support them. areas in villages or towns are becoming the new small 'english town' or 'german town' etc (i have a good example. a friend of mine is the only greek in her neighbourhood as the 5 house next to her are taken by british).along with the good sociocultutal changes the bad ones are coming.

in other words its both good and bad. the change will happen. we can not stop it but we can only work on it to make it easier or better for the future. Imagine if there was a law saying for every 100 greeks 10 foreigners are alowed to live there. its not possible and neither right as we are in the eu. i have the right to move and so do the others. we just have to take things slowly (yes the typical greek here) and with lots of thinking rather than the easy money or solution to our problems.

the villages and areas you/ we / i loved will never be the same. besides some people like the rural ones and others the developed. we have to make it possible to most people to get what they want.
to finish this long reply i will just add 4 things.

1) i had an english ones that told me that he moved to crete because his town was full of foreigners and he could not stand it. why isnt he here among foreigners? doesnt he do to our village the same others are did in his?
2) i once was about to buy a land. when i saw the owner he said 6 million Drachmas. a month later before we finish the paper work he asked me for 10-12 million as an english had offered him 13 mil and he was thinking of selling to him. he did sell to him in the end.
3) i am not agents anybody from which ever country to move in my village (we the greeks did it to) but 'when in Rome act like Roman' even if you dont agree or feel like it. keep your ideas and support them but try to understand the hosts and help them out. dont just move in, never learn the language and just complain about everything coz its not like back home.
4) all of us here talk about good places to go/ visit/ see when in Crete. Has any of us thought that by doing so we let the secret out and more will follow making the paradise a lost one in the name of development and money?
sorry for the long reply but i liked the topic

And what is wrong with Bognor ??

Nothing at all. It is our jaded palates that are to blame for so much. There is much of our own country that most of us, have not, and will never see.

Our youngest lives in London so, several times a year, we spend long weekends there. If we continue to go for the next twenty years we still will not exhaust the things and places to visit whilst there.

The same applies to Crete or any other destination. There are 192 countries in the world. The way I see it we have a long way to go before we spoil them all, and we will. Yet we probably will never see things of beauty less than an hour away from home.

fwh

I live just outside Bognor and go to Crete so guess I get the best of both worlds

The main thing that is different between Crete and Bognor is the weather! Oh and the beach! Oh and Butlins!