I did French and Spanish languages at school and have always been interested in learning some local lingo before going on holiday.

In Egypt I can say some words in Arabic but know I can get by in French when I need to and before we came to live in Cyprus I took Greek lessons for 6 months at the local technical college and then another 6 months of private lessons on arriving in Cyprus.

However, I don't need Greek language for my job but we have a multilingual Support department and cover some 20 European languages. Our office cleaners are Cypriot so it's good to be able to communicate as well as in my village/suburb. We are the only non-Cypriots on our street but some speak a little English including our landlord who is the chief maintenance engineer at one of the hotels in Limassol.

Most of the schoolchildren don't start to take English lessons until they are in their teens and many go on to have private lessons particularly if they want to go to university afterwards. So there's often a "gap" between who you can and cannot speak with.

Sadly, it does seem to be the way that the English feel everyone should speak our language especially as it is the language of finance (or it was).

I still look upon the "odd" things that happen in Cyprus as the reason we came here in the first place. We knew we weren't going to "England with Sun" as life is certainly very different than the one we left. It's one of the reasons we chose to live in Limassol rather than Paphos as we/ve noticed there's a different mentality about the approach to life in Cyprus depending on which part of the island you reside in...

We did know we were coming for a more relaxed and better lifestyle, which is what we have. But hey, if the Cyprus bureaucracy requires you to fill out a form that's printed all in Greek and in triplicate - well, there's always someone at an official goverment office Kafenion who will do it for a few Euros. It's just knowing where to look!

Well, I like to learn at least a few phrases of the lingo wherever possible, even if only just to satisfy my own curiosity. Politness costs nothing and the locals appreciate very much if you have made the effort to at least say a few words in thier native language.
When we were off the beaten track in one of the Canary Islands, the people we met spoke very little English and the only way to converse was in Spanish. They were even helpful with our pronunication and trying to teach us phrases we did not know.

When we have foreign guests over here, we expect them to be able to speak English, even if only to say "please" "Thank you" and "where is the..."..so surely it is not too much to expect us to do the same. If more people did, we would come over as far less arrogant.

I know enough Spanish, Italian, French and German to get by. over the years, I have picked up a few Thai phrases, Russian, Swedish, Arabic Egyptian and Maltese...some of which has been learnt from other guests we have met. I actually wish I had more of a fluent grasp of many different languages around the world as it never does anyone any harm to learn summats new.

I have thoughts on this, they are just ideas but before I bother to write them I would say that they are generalizations that don’t apply to anyone here because I am sure that most people here are really good at foreign languages.

I think that the first thing that holds English speakers back from learning a language is that many think that their own language is much more important than everyone else’s. So they don’t feel the need to learn.

There is nothing wrong with English speaker’s intelligence; they have the same ability to learn as all other people, some seem very impressed with foreigners who can speak more than one language well, many would like to learn and I believe that given the right tuition they would learn just as well as anyone else.

So I think that the main reason why English speakers cannot learn is because they have never been taught properly and simply do not know how to study a language.
There are exceptions, but it is well known that native English speakers are very bad at foreign languages. I believe that the United Kingdom and Ireland are bottom of the European league for languages.

As you started this topic Andy and Caz, I'm sure you will be swotting up on here before you go of to Tunisia in September: http://www.holidaytruths.co.uk/forum/tunisian-arabic-phrases-t103656.html?hilit=language

My eldest grandson has been learning Japanese and spent a couple of weeks out there in May, finding his way around independently and socializing with the locals in their own language. He loved it and is returning for another fortnight in September.

Español wrote:

I have thoughts on this, they are just ideas but before I bother to write them I would say that they are generalizations that don’t apply to anyone here because I am sure that most people here are really good at foreign languages.

I think that the first thing that holds English speakers back from learning a language is that many think that their own language is much more important than everyone else’s. So they don’t feel the need to learn.

There is nothing wrong with English speaker’s intelligence; they have the same ability to learn as all other people, some seem very impressed with foreigners who can speak more than one language well, many would like to learn and I believe that given the right tuition they would learn just as well as anyone else.

So I think that the main reason why English speakers cannot learn is because they have never been taught properly and simply do not know how to study a language.
There are exceptions, but it is well known that native English speakers are very bad at foreign languages. I believe that the United Kingdom and Ireland are bottom of the European league for languages.

I certainly don't think that my native language is more important than anyone else's

One of the reasons I reckon that we don't speak as many languages as other countries is because we aren't taught a 2nd language at an early enough age. I didn't start to be taught French as school until I was in the senior years. Most foreign countries will start learning another language a lot earlier in their childhood. In Holland for instance, the Dutch couple who lived near to us were teaching their 2 year old both Dutch and English. They would tell the little girl to 'close the door' in Dutch then repeat it in English.

Also I wonder if us being an Island has anything to do with it?

Fiona wrote:

Doe
It wasn't an expat Cyprus forum was it? My sister could never understand why everyone spent their time whinging when they had chosen to move to the country.

How did you guess also i visit a Spainish one as well, which is virtually as bad.

To be honest I'm not suprised a lot on the later can't speak Spanish as they can barely deal with written English.

As said Wiz you are hardly going to be slatted for saying it how it is

I learn't French for 11 years & retained much of it, one of my French teachers biggest gripes was that she had to teach us English properly first before we could progress in French.

In part I can actually understand people who holiday all over the world not bothering to learn too much, particulaly when you go to somewhere like Naama Bay, try to say No thank you in the local language and receive abuse on the lines of 'how dare you speak my language' because you wont buy whatever cr@p they are selling.

But I can't for the life of me understand how ex-pats get by without learing the language of where they have emigrated to. For a start how would you ever eavesdrop on people one massive form of entertainment gone for a start.

With respect Doe, it's hardly polite to criticise expats written English when you have made at least five errors in your post.

.

I have mainly been on holiday to Spanish resorts as I love the Spanish, I did basic French at School, then French and German at College but not Spanish. So several years ago I did an Adult Education night class to learn the basics of Spainish, which I did and thoroughly enjoyed it - I would not say by any stretch of the imagination say I was fluet or even conversational, however I think I can get by, and if I get stuck I insert an english word and hope they get my drift.

I am sure my pronouceation (sp) is absolutely rubbish, but I try to make an effort and to date I have never had a Spanish person roll over with laughter (to my face anyways) at what I have said.

Oh and I can count to ten in Japanese - many years ago my son went to Karate classes and had to count to ten in Japanese so it stuck

Cyprus - I'm impressed with the Arabic

Judith wrote:

With respect Doe, it's hardly polite to criticise expats written English when you have made at least five errors in your post.

.

And you are oh so perfect but then I do have my dyslexia to fall back on I guess guess you are happy laying in to someone with that kind of impairment.

Aslemma wrote:

As you started this topic Andy and Caz, I'm sure you will be swotting up on here before you go of to Tunisia in September: http://www.holidaytruths.co.uk/forum/tunisian-arabic-phrases-t103656.html?hilit=language :rofl

Aslemma
you maybe surprised to find out that we were both very keen to learn a little arabic but when researching which may be the easiest approach to learn this language we were told by many people that french would be a better approach as many people in tunisia speak french.

But aside from that we are now going to turkey instead, as the reviews for the hotel we had booked had consistently gone from good to downright terrible, so rather than waste my hard earned money we decided to change our holiday and goto turkey, A country i know quite well and a lanquage that i am still trying to learn i have bought the rosettastone language course and am studying like crazy. What i need is a turkish person to help me along as i am not sure that what i am saying and repeating is correct but trust me i will persevere .

And i will always have my pocket phrase book with me which on more than one occasion has led to a night chatting with waiters etc.. who love to help with pronunciation.

Andy & Caz

Miss Pink - have you had a look at this site. http://www.byki.co.uk I think it's brilliant for helping with pronounciation. There are so many languages on there. I speak and write English & Welsh fluently, and have enough vocabulary to make myself understood in French & Spanish - individual words though, not always complete sentences, apart from where's the loo/shop/bar e.t.c When we went on holiday to Mexico, Shirley & I went to some lesons organised in the hotel. When my dad had a heart attack out in Majorca, I spent an hour or so with a waiter who helped me translate the Doctors notes. My Greek is basically please & thank you/cheers/ bill please and other bits & pieces.

You wanna get an iPad !!! It corrects all my spelling as I type , pity it can't put my incoherent rambling into proper sentences though.

It's not doing anything for mine Andy. Infact on the IPad the dyslexia is even worse. although I probably haven't installed the correct programmes on it. Might be my eyes going as well though.

Reading the posts here have made me understand more why English people are generally no good at languages.
I don’t think it has anything to do with the UK and Ireland being islands, there are plenty of islands in the world where speaking two or more languages is normal, and the UK probably has a larger mixture and number of foreigners living there than most other countries, so you cannot be thought of as isolated.

The point about not being taught a foreign language until secondary school tells me a lot, especially as the person that raised that point tells us about a Dutch family that was teaching a two year old how to speak and understand English.
The two year old would not have started school but the parents realized that a second (and in the case of the Dutch, probably a third fourth and fifth) language is important.

If English parents wait for schools to decide to teach a language to their children then they are not placing enough importance on learning a second language.
Would a parent not bother having their children learn how to start reading, writing or doing mathematics until they start school?
Would they not bother either teaching them themselves (or getting someone else to help teach their kids if they are inadequate to teach) so they are better prepared for when the lessons start?

What I have learned from reading the posts here is that a second language seems to have no importance in an English child’s education, and as I wrote earlier, for the majority of people that decide later in life that they want to learn a language, they have difficulty as they really do not know how to study.

Learning any language is hard. There is help available if you look, but the main bulk of the work is self-taught. It cannot be done for you.

Helen T wrote:

Miss Pink - have you had a look at this site. http://www.byki.co.uk I think it's brilliant for helping with pronounciation. There are so many languages on there. I speak and write English & Welsh fluently, and have enough vocabulary to make myself understood in French & Spanish - individual words though, not always complete sentences, apart from where's the loo/shop/bar e.t.c When we went on holiday to Mexico, Shirley & I went to some lesons organised in the hotel. When my dad had a heart attack out in Majorca, I spent an hour or so with a waiter who helped me translate the Doctors notes. My Greek is basically please & thank you/cheers/ bill please and other bits & pieces.

Thanks Helen I will have a look. A friend of mine lent me a CD with basic Spanish, which I played in the car on the drive to work - but I found i couldn't concentrate on either properly so stopped that

Espanol - my children and grandchildren have been spoken to/taught in English and Welsh since they've been born, and easily differentiate beteen the languages. Working in a Welsh medium primary school, with lots of children from English homes, we see how easily a child changes from speaking Welsh to us and English to a parent. However, if we wanted them to learn a third language, we'd have to hire a private tutor, and living in what has been officially classed as a "socially deprived area" I doubt that many would have the money to do that.,

but the main bulk of the work is self-taught.

I've been following the various threads of this discussion carefully.

I think that rote/memory learning is important to learning a foreign language ... which is what I think was meant by 'self-taught' in Espanol's post ... such as conjugations of verbs, or declensions of nouns and adjectives BUT the building blocks of language learning need to be introduced in the correct order and reinforced by written, listening and spoken exercises which really require formal 'teaching' to correct errors early on, motivate and encourage. This can be done effectively in the early stages by a teacher who is not necessarily a native speaker, but as a student becomes more proficient and gains in speed in terms of response and in vocabulary acquired, it is always better to have a native speaker and not rely on the student's mother tongue for explanations.

It has been MANY years since English grammar was taught in English schools, and despite the present government's intentions, it will take some time before students actually apply what they are going to learn in terms of their own language structure to that of another language.

And because of this long gap in English teaching, many parents are not able to use their own language in a correct manner, especially when they live in an area where a local dialect is prevalent. And sadly, there are many parents, far too many parents in my opinion, who consider that their children can or should only learn from being at school and do not make active efforts to teach them or stretch their abilities either before compulsory schooling or outside the classroom.

In our primary school, grammar is taught on a daily basis. For the very little ones who are just beginning to write on their own, we start with just full stops, & progress to commas and speech marks by age 7. After that verbs/nouns/adjectives are introduced. When I was in secondary school many moons ago we were taught about adverbs/pronouns e.t.c. I can't remember either of my children being taught actual grammar at Secondary school