It would assist if you could post the names of the hotels. It is also possible that another member may have visited and be able to provide further information.

fwh

Hotel Marhaba Beach sousse - hotel originally booked - very tired/dated hotel (can't post links as not allowed sorry).

I have travelled extensively worldwide, usa, thailand, bermuda, europe - italy,france, egypt, poland czech, turkey, spain etc. etc - and I have even camped in pop up tents in fields in the uk so I am not "snob"- so I know when I pay "peanuts" to expect not much and I know when I pay "top whack" I expect certain standards - therefore I have a good idea of what is to be expected.

I have been to 2/3* hotels in Turkey that were better and Egypt 4* are prime examples of where their standards surpass their ratings.

In summary gym not fit for purpose (cockroaches crawling round), building works going on , golf course dirty not fit for purpose, indoor pool closed and being fixed, persistant hotel touts, repetitive food - evening meals being served as "lunch" - no snacks really for all inclusive as promised, no fresh orange juice, all drinks awful, "offensive" evening entertainment that was meant to be familys.. (not a prude - but there's a limit...)

i put on my official holiday complaint form that "i am moving under duress and I do not accept the move as compensation or full/final settlement." - they signed off on this.

Also I added that i am moving under duress - no other option available - they signed off on this.

The hotel we moved to was bettter - marhaba salem - sousse (can't post links not allowed too)

This I would class as a good 2*/average 3*.

In summary this hotel had better/food drink was more modern etc but still not a 4* hotel.

Also to top it all off,

The night before we flew back neighbouring rooms had parties going on until 2am (had to be up at 6am).

Hotel security were useless - and I had to deal with 6 tunisians myself who were drunk, rude and rowdy - thankfuly they shut up - hotel manager not around in the morning to speak too in regards to hotel security incomptency.

And the vip treatment (lounge) at the tunisian airport was promised and not given with no explanation - promised right up until we arrived at the the airport on the coach and then the rep dissapeared with no explanation - called them.

First Choice usually have a good brand name to be fair but I won't be booking with them ever again and definately never visiting tunisia - Egypt/Turkey far better imo.

When we complained to a holiday company after a holiday in a hotel that was literally a building site we only got hotel costs back.The flight and transfer costs were not refunded.
Did you not get informed of the building work before you left?
I spent Christmas in Port el Kantoui at the Riviera hotel and it was amazing.
I have visited the Marhaba hotels in Sousse and I wouldnt consider any of them to be a 4 star so dont know how First Choice do.
The amount you paid seems very expensive so I would see if they up their offer but you will not get anything back on the flights.

Hi Jaytrip,

Not informed of building works at all, the problem with most brits is we seem to put up with way too much rubbish/don't complain/don't know our rights, and give up when they knock you back with a letter saying thanks for your comments but we feel ... blah blah - it's a standard mailshot reply to people who complain.

I am glad that I am not going mad !! none of them were a 4*, and still aren't and I honestly can't believe a brand name like first choice can defend that they are/put their name to it.

Believe me I am the first to give a compliment/tips etc. etc. , but I don't like being blatantly ripped off either.

So as a rule of thumb, would you say then if I took them to small claims court or got legal involved that they also wouldn't be able to get the whole cost back - my point being i wouldn't of booked the holiday/taken the flights etc. etc. - as this was a "package" booked entirely with them surely they are responsible?

Generally speaking, no you won't get a refund on the flights unless there was also a problem with them.

SM

thanks for this sma and jaytrip.

i can't prove/disprove how much the flight costs were.

£375 out of £2100 seems a bit too low.

They said the accomodation cost was £450-500 if my memory serves me right - and the rest were flights.

Thoughts? if i get the full cost of the hotel i presume i have done aswell as possible especially as i have refused vouchers etc.

Star ratings are subjective and I don't think anyone really has any idea how they are awarded. Taking a company to the small claims court is fine but I would suggest that you make an effort to resolve the problem without resorting to that. I have looked at recent reviews of both places and to be honest they do not seem to bear out what you are saying, but then everyone has different expectations. Should you go to court then no doubt FC could point to such reviews and claim things were not as bad as you make out.
From previous reports on HT it does seem as though the costs of a holiday are based on 60% flight and 40% accommodation and as you did have a holiday, perhaps not as you booked but that would likely be offset against any claim. Repetative food seems to be standard in AI - some rotate it on a one week basis and others on a two week. Touts you seem to get in most places these days and hotels can do little about them. Your comment "not fit for purpose" is your point of view I'm afraid unless you have witnesses to back things up.

Sorry if I seem to be putting the damper on but TOs are always slow to respond or address the problems people face at times but I don't think you will recover the full cost in court and you might finish up with nothing.

fwh

One of HT members Aslemma was due to stay at one of the Marhaba hotels recently but I am sure she was moved because of the building work.
I will try and contact her as she really is an expert on hotels in Sousse.

fwh, i respect everyone has an opinion, but some people honestly don't know any better - i.e better hotels/standards.

as mentioned i am far from a snob, this year i will be going to egypt again as i can't fault the place, but i will also be camping on the isle of wight in a pop up tent with my family...- not going to argue that the grass hasn't been cut evenly or that my pitch is un-even and that there's a queue for the loo's/showers ! - i will be paying peanuts so i don't expect much !

if you have been to "true" 4 star hotels and "true" 3 star hotels then you should be able to draw a comparison, especially if you have been with first choice before which i have.

it seems that jaytrip shares my opinion that the hotel's sousse none of them are 4* and also the people who stayed at the marhaba beach who i am in contact and have also logged complaints to first choice.

moving on just wanted to know what is the "best" i can expect under the circumstances and is there a way i can definately find out how much the flights/hotel were at the time - or do i have to just take their word for it?

thanks again for the replies !

I dont think you will get your flight costs back.
Did you go during Half Term?
The hotel we stayed at in Post el Kantoui was excellent and the staff were the best we have had anywhere which includes Egypt and the zillion times we have been to Turkey over the last 23 years.
The prices seems very expensive considering we only paid £289 for Christmas week.4* AI.
The El Hana Palace was reduced to £128 for HB in Christmas week.These were both with Thomas Cook.
I am mentioning these prices so you can compare what you paid.
I think the only 4star hotels in Tunisia are the Riu and Iberostar hotels.Both are Spanish owned chains.
The only way I think you can find out how much the flights were at the time you visited is to go to the Sousse forum on Trip Advisor and ask how mush people paid for their flights at the time you were there and from the same airport.
Aslemma books her flights separately so I will ask how much she normally pays.

Hi Jaytrip - yes went in half term.

We flew thomson there and back .

Been to turkey once - very pleasantly suprised (will go back definately again) and egypt 6 times in last 3/4 years.

to add went from gatwick.

Hi Mikies,

I deal with complaints for the company i work so i hope i might be able to give some advice to you which might help your claim.

Webiste pictures - its good that you have the proof to actually show them that what they advertise to what you get are 2 different things, so thats one down.

Building works - you should have been made aware of this either at the time of booking with an errata showing and you ticking the box to say you have read it (website booking), or if they were informed after your booking then notification should have been given to you and depending on the nature of the work and the possible effects it may have on your enjoyment. Most operators will then give you a few options of what you are able to do.

Complaint in resort - thank god that you did do this and i would imagine that you have a copy of the report, this puts you in a good position as you have followed the operators instructions. Did you have to pay anything to move to the other property ?

Star Ratings - this is a very grey area and sometimes i wonder how hotels get some of these ratings. Normally there will be the local official rating and then the tour operator, The larger operators are normally quite strict in order not to over rate a hotel. I know of some accommodation only operators that put a 5* rating and when you actually look at the hotel, it barely looks a 3* at best, this is normally covered in their terms regards to how they rate a property and what you can expect in one country can be very different to what you will get in another.

repetitive food - evening meals being served as "lunch" - no snacks really for all inclusive as promised, no fresh orange juice, all drinks awful, "offensive" evening entertainment that was meant to be familys.. (not a prude - but there's a limit...)


This is a tricky one as food and entertainment is a personal choice, what i like can be very different from what you like and you won't really get far on this one except for a thanks for your comments line. Some All Inclusive hotels in some of these countries can be quite ghastly and low quality but hey, they have to feed hundreds of people for sometimes very little money recieved by operators.

As you were on a package and your invoice probably shows just per person inclusive price with no breakdown of the costs for each person then it does become a little more difficult but as a general rule, accommodation normally counts for around 30% of the total cost but does vary from operator to operator so if you paid £2100 = 30% £630 for accommodation.

As you travelled in october, was it half term or longer than 7nts because this wasn't a cheap holiday based on the 3 of you.

Whilst this amount is higher than what you have been offered, you will need to look at what costs are incurred to take it further, next step would probably be abitration but it normally costs you to do this and the decision made by the arbitrator is final.
I had one case recently, also in tunisia whereby customer had problems in resort and paid just under £200 to move hotels, after the operator declined to pay, the case went to abitration and the customer was left with £150 so minus their costs, they didn't get much back but the case was quite weak from the customers side.

To sum up, i would say you have a case for arbitration, however, before doing so, one little tip, they have offered you £375, when you take a company to arbitration, the cost to the company is around £180 and they can't dispute this, so you might be worth saying that you know you have a case for arbitration and you know it will cost them as a company, therefore rather than go down this route "paperwork, time etc", you would accept a settlement of £555 and ask them if this would be accepted.
I think you will have more luck on this and they can't stop you taking it further but be warned, if you decline the offer, you may end up with less. Personally, from past experience, i doubt you will get more but the decision is yours.

Thanks

This might help in some way
Taken from Dispute Settlement Services Ltd:
You will form a legally binding contract with your Tour Operator
when your holiday booking is accepted i.e. when you get a
confirmation invoice. You are then entitled under the Package
Travel, Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992
to the holiday you believe you booked and paid for.
Therefore carefully consider how the holiday is described in
the brochure or on the website etc.

If the holiday does not substantially match the description,
you may have a claim against the Tour Operator for compensation.
The operator is liable for all the services if it has organised two or
more aspects of your holiday, i.e. a package. For example: car hire,
accommodation, flights, etc.

You cannot generally succeed in a claim for loss of enjoyment.
Unless it was a special trip such as a honeymoon which went quite
wrong your claim is unlikely to succeed.

A successful claim relates to important terms of the holiday contract
known as express or implied terms that must have been broken;
e.g. an express term where the brochure promises full board or entertainment
each night which is not available or an implied term that your holiday should
be of a reasonable standard bearing in mind the price you paid,
i.e. not a specific term written into the contract but one that is generally
accepted by the average person and the courts.

In addition to breach of contract, to qualify for compensation the court must
be happy that you have suffered a loss as a direct result of that breach.
Courts consider what effect this breach had on your holiday experience overall.
However if the Tour Operator offers a reasonable alternative to help make up
for the breach you must consider taking this or it may be said that you have
failed to try to mitigate your loss. This is a legal duty on the complainant
and failure to do so may invalidate your claim.

You must raise your complaint as soon as possible to either the Tour Operator
or the Holiday Representative at the holiday location and give them all reasonable
opportunity to address your concerns.

just had a quick look at bookings during that time, most people paying around the £270pp mark for flight only but they were late bookings and given the current situation, may have been reduced quite a bit to get bums on seats

thanks

Hi leisurelad many thanks for the reply.

7 nights, refused point blank to pay any extra money and didn't!- they tried to make me feel that they were doing me a favour by moving from a 4* to a 3* and apparantly it was alot more money to downgrade .. w.t ... !
.
not told of any building works prior to departure - definately.

have a copy of the report, and as I said clearly stipulated on the report that I didn't accept anything as compensation which they signed off on and also that I was moving to another hotel under duress - no other option given to me free of charge.

went through all my old emails got a breakdown of the holiday here goes : -

BASIC COST:
£ 1527.00
ACCOMMODATION COST:
£ 445.00
1 x Select your Seat:
£ 17.00
2 x Select Your Seat Adult:
£ 34.00
3 x Coach Transfers:
£ 75.00
1 x Family Single Trip Ins:
£ 51.99
1 x Family Excess Waiver:
£ 24.99
Admin Fee not Coll:
£ -50.00
TUI Amendment Charge:
£ 50.00
Sub-Total:
£ 2174.98
Retail Discretionary:
£ -93.98
Total Discount:
£ 93.98
(of which, allocated Insurance Discount = £37.70)
Total:
£ 2081.00

Hi Mikies,

From what you have put and the invoice breakdown, i would probably go to them and ask them for £180 extra which is the arbitration fee, maybe re-state the facts and if they haven't replied to certain points, make them aware of it.
If you go them in a nicely written letter and say that you want to resolve the complaint as quickly as possible and say that you believe you have a good case for arbitration, but rather than going down that route and taking up everyones time, you would be happy with a final settlement of £555.
They can only say no and if it were me handling the complaint, i would re-look at all the facts and ask myself, well its going to cost the company £180 and then if the arbitrator awarded £300 comp it would cost the company £480 so rather than taking the chance and maybe ending up paying more, i can settle now for £555 and case closed.

This is how i look at an ongoing complaint, if the customer has mentioned that arbitration would be the next step and if i felt that they had a good enough case then i seek to close it the best i can, they may come back to you and say £500 and then case can be closed.

An arbitrtor may look at your invoice and think ok, £445 divide by 7 = £63.57 total per night. You moved after 3 days so award £63.57 x 3 = £190.71 + £75 comp = £265.71.
You never know how they may look at it so i would push for the £555 and if they come back with something around the £500 figure, i would accept it and call it quits, you may get more but you might just get less.

The decision is yours but good luck and please let us know how you get on. I would be interested to know what happens.

When I first read your post my initial reaction was that the Marhaba beach must have really gone down since I stayed there (10 years ago) because at the time I thought it represented good value. And at £20 per head per day for AI some would probably say that it is still good value. Given the breakdown that you give they've already offered you only £70 less than you paid for the hotel so I think that your best bet is to take the corse of action that Leisurelad suggests and personally, if they upped it to £450 I'd take that instead of going through the hassle of arbitration or the small claims court.

They are going to counter that a lot of the total cost of the holiday was for things that had nothing to do with the quality of the hotel eg paying the extra to choose your seats on the plane, the transfer costs, insurance etc. Yes, these things all add up but the problem was with the hotel and if you get what you paid for that then I really don't think that your re going to get by far trying to get more than that from them.

SM

Have just been through my old paperwork relating to a holiday we took with First Choice covering Christmas and New Year back in 1999/2000.

Our complaint was regarding the state of our self catering apartment in Gran Canaria, dirty, etc. We had to be moved twice due to the time of year. (In resort Admin fee of £125 was charged for the move). The holiday cost £1895 for 2 adults and a 15 yr old (classed as child).

FC's initial offer of compensation was £50 which I rejected.

Their next offer was £200 plus the £125 admin charge ie £325. Which I again rejected.

Next came an offer of £200per adult & £100 for the child and refund of admin fee = £625. I returned the cheque for this amount also.

I finally settled in March, for £794. (£669 compensation)

I also stressed in my correspondence our loss of enjoyment (disappointment and inconvenience). I stated that 'I am legally entitled to receive compensation for the loss of value and the loss of enjoyment'

It irks me that TO's can take off the cost of the flight when a holiday isn't the one that you signed a contract for, as, does this mean that TO's can send you to some hell hole and you have to pay for the privileged of getting there?