JMK, Even in the small towns many Turkish people still drink alcohol though.

You are correct that they do have Islam entered on their birth details, if my daughter had been born in Turkey rather than the UK she too would have been listed as Muslim. Most Turks I know would definitely class themsleves as Muslim anywya, even though they may not be particularly strict, they drnk ad don't often go to the mosque for example. I think it is the same with any religion though, you will always get those who are strict and follow all the rules and those whoare still believers and yet don't follow so devoutly.

I'm sure there plenty of coutries ready to take over from Turkey in terms of value for money but I'm also sure that there will be many people who still continue to go because they love the country. All the EU countries used to be very cheap too but not so any more.

Oh yes KY I'm sure many people will still choose to holiday in Turkey and I'm one of them. I'm lucky to be semi retired and holiday for at least 12 weeks a year with around 8 of them being in Turkey. However people are fickle and those who just want some sun and a few drinks may well decide to go elsewhere and there are plenty of people who feel like that and plenty of lovely countries to visit. I don't think the Turkish government are all that concerned about the tourist trade, tourist areas are tiny compared to the rest of the country. I think they are more concerned about reducing the amount of alcohol consumed by the inhabitants and making more by way of taxes on visiting drinkers. From what I have seen though the further from coastal resorts and large cities you go the more people follow the teachings of the Koran and do not drink. Of course there will be some who do but in contrast with the resorts where many drink alcohol to excess, many sit around in coffee houses drinking - coffee!

It is a shame it has come to this, but with its rising popularity I guess thats what has happened. The problem now lies with people booking for 2011 thinking Turkey is cheap if they have never visited. They will get a shock.

After four years in a row, we're steering clear. Lovely people and places, but the time has come to explore elsewhere!

P.S A pint of Efes (500ml bottle) is £2.35 in Wetherspoons, it's risen from £2.25 and previous to that £1.85!

Hi JMK,

I lived in Turkey for two winters and don't remember ever seeing ONE person drunk - let alone constantly! Whereabouts did you see these people constantly drunk?

As for you saying the government are not concerned about the Turkish tourist trade: whatever makes you think that? The tourism sector is of huge importance to the economy! They welcome something like 50 million tourists annually, and it's about the 8th most popular tourist destination in the world!

Nearly 5 percent of GDI is generated by tourism; that's 15 percent of employment, and investment of about 35 billion dollars. Besides mass tourism, there's also cultural tourism and now business tourism, too. Istanbul alone has six major conference centres which hosts international events throughout the year.

So no way would the Turkish governent want to lose all that revenue! In fact, they couldn't afford to!

Incidentally, most Turks do not drink coffee in coffee houses - they drink tea. Coffee is seldom drunk in Turkey. When they do drink coffee it's usually as a celebration, or drunk after lunch or dinner. Their daily drink is tea - just like Brits.

Strawberry

I never saw anyone constantly drunk in winter time either! The people who would drink through the summer months seemed to stop drinking alcohol through the winter.

Oh well we have different experiences and different places no doubt. I have seen so many seasonal workers who stay in resorts during winter very drunk a lot of the time. They all get together and drink whatever they can afford and share whatever they have. Apart from fixing up their boats and doing any odd jobs they can find they have little else to do. One thing they do not do is look particularly drunk or make a lot of noise about it. They just sit around with their bottles of Raki or beer. Of course it's not all of them but I know of quite a few and have noticed them in several resorts. With the extra tax though I think there will be less of them affording it.
As for the tourist trade, they are not making it easy. The expected change in tourist visa rules will mean that anyone who visits frequently will have to be very careful when to buy this 180 day visa and then when to book their trips. I don't know how true this is but one of the customs men said that you wouldn't be able to buy a following one until the 180 days were up. Booking a holiday in April and then another in /Sept October will have to be carefully planned so that the visa doesn't run out before the end of the last holiday. In the past I have bought a new visa if my 90 day one was going to expire during a visit but it seems we wont be able to do that. I know it has more to do with people who reside there being forced to buy residency visas but it will affect tourists too. Putting up tax on alcohol is also not helping to attract tourists. It doesn't worry us too much and I don't think it should be particularly cheap, there's not much worse than very drunk tourists staggering around but if it starts to be more than Europe some people will stop going. Don't even start me on the airports and the extortion that goes on in those. I have met people who have had such a dreadful time in these at the end of their holidays that they vow never to return. Now I know most airports are expensive but Dalaman in particular is dreadful.
I'm not anti Turkey at all, I love visiting and don't drink very much. I've also been enough times to know where the reasonably priced food etc is but for those who don't know the country well and turn up somewhere like Olu Deniz I think they are in for a shock.

Just to sat that the 90 day in 180 day visa which was due to start in September/October this year has been put on hold by the Turkish government - they are to review the matter and will give plenty of notice if and when they intend to implement this. Anybody with a visa sticker in their passport which says 90 days in 180 days can ignore it for the present time.

For me, the hike in alcohol prices won't put me off Turkey although I'm not mad about paying more for my drinks.

Jak xx

There seems to be nothing official about this visa situation, just rumours and different opinions from different people. I have one of these visas in my passport clearly stating I can stay 90 days out of 180. I asked 2 customs officials in Bodrum and 1 in Dalaman. 1 in each airport assured me it was legal and 1 in Bodrum said it wasn't. A friend asked in Dalaman and was told it was valid. I asked them very plainly 'Can I use this for 180 days' and they both said 'yes any 90 days in the next 180' . I was told this in October. Now we know this change in rules has been put on hold for now but the officials are not singing from the same hymn sheet it seems. General opinion or rumour seems to think this will be made law before long and probably early 2011. In the mean time loads of us have these 180 day visas and the Turkish government are not making it very clear to the tourists wishing to visit their country. With all respect you cannot believe a post on a forum it needs to be a link to an official announcement. These visas are official and I cant see how you can turn up with one in your passport for them then to say 'oh we've changed our mind its not valid'. This is just another example of them messing visitors around.

JMK wrote:

With all respect you cannot believe a post on a forum it needs to be a link to an official announcement.

There was a link on the visa post that stated the visa rule for 90 days in 180 had been scrapped for the time being, this was from the official UK consulate website in Ankara. There doesn't seem to have been any more official statements isssued since then. If anyone has one of the 180 day stickers then they just need to get a new 90 day sticker when they arrive at the airport.

Unfortunately all the "messing around" is just typically Turkish. My husband would always say "This is Turkey!" whenever something like this happened while we were living there

I cant see how you can turn up with one in your passport for them then to say 'oh we've changed our mind its not valid'. This is just another example of them messing visitors around.

Reminds me of seven years ago when as we were leaving the Dominican Republic, they had (without warning) put up the departure tax overnight.... at the time they would only accept payment in one currency, but I didn't have enough to do that so they took payment in a combination of dollars/pesos.. seems some countries make up the rules as they go along... doesn't exactly give you confidence to go there does it??

ATB,J.

No merseygull it doesn't. If I had a lira for every time I heard the 'this is Turkey' excuse I would be loaded. It's this kind of thing that makes me wonder if they are really serious about wanting tourists. You can't expect tourists to put up with it, if they have poor experiences they won't return. Yes I think they do want cultural tourists who generally have plenty of cash to splash but the other end of the market? Hmm. However Turkey allowed these cheap resorts to be built and the less well off Brits and other yabancis piled in. While it was cheap I suppose the 'this is Turkey' excuses were amusing and tolerable but now they are upping the game by charging much the same or more than most European countries but not providing the service to match. In my other posts regarding alcohol and Islam, I think what I was trying to say is that despite Turkey being a secular state, the government have religious tendancies and I am sure they would prefer it if their citizens were unable to afford alcohol any more. I wonder if they have given much consideration to what this will do to the tourist trade, maybe they think it will attract the well off tourists and deter the heavy drinkers that perhaps they just don't want anyway. Perhaps I am way off the mark but there is definately quite a push to promote Islam and alcohol does not fit in with that.

I didnt think Turkey was that expensive when I visited last month as we were paying between 50tl-55tl (£20-£24)for a meal for 2 with 2 drinks,but on booking a holiday in Rhodes for next year the travel agent told me they had paid 8 euros for a 3 course meal in Rhodes last month
This seems very reasonable as we have been avoiding the Eurozone countries for a few years now.
I cant put my finger on it but Turkey this year was just not the same and I spoke to quite a few people who thought the same.
I may still be back next September/October.

JMK, I understand what you mean about the "This is Turkey" phrase - but it's not used only for explaining things to tourists. Many of the ways that the Turkish people work are quite alien to us but the same rules apply to the Turkish people as well as us, eg strange things about the way electricity meters are read, the way the council can just decomission a road and block it off .... I could go on but sometimes the phrase "This is Turkey" is the only way things can be understood!!!!

Jak xx

We've never found Turkey to be particularly expensive despite the opinions of others on this Forum and we've been coming here some thirteen years. It is rare that alcohol passes my lips as I don't feel the need for it. There are three types of tourist, a, Those who drink little or no alcohol. b, Those who drink in moderation. c, Those who go out and get drunk every night. The last category can quite easily go to their local supermarket in this country, fill up the trolley with cheap booze and sit within their own four walls for two weeks and get totally plastered without going to the expense of a holiday abroad to do the same thing !!!! The religious thing doesn't phase us either as we are guests in their country and respect their culture and beliefs. We keep up to date with the latest goings on in Turkey by visiting website Voices Newspaper Altinkum.

Les

As Jakki says "This is Turkey!" is used for everything and to be honest if it wasn't for a lot of the things it is used for then Turkey wouldn't be Turkey!

I think you are probably right about the kind of tourists that the government would like JMK, I'm sure they would rather get away from the image of drunken tourists and have more culturally aware people and maybe putting up the alcohol will help to this end. They probably had no idea how the resorts would turn out when tourists first started coming to Turkey, these things just seem to get out of control sometimes. I think the smartening up of resorts that started this year was one stage in trying to clean up the image and maybe the alcohol tax is another. Maybe it will be a good thing in the end, who knows

You are also correct that the government is swinging more towards religious views than has happened in recent years but I guess that is a political discussion rather than a travel one.

Cruisecontroller, those who want to get completely drunk every night certainly could stay at home to do it but they don't, they choose to go wherever theey can to get the cheapest drink possible and that has been Turkey for a long time, maybe now it isn't so cheap to drink they will go somewhere else

Hi JMK,

We obviously did visit different places in the winter, then. I lived in Fethiye, but did lots of travelling throughout Turkey, from Istanbul all the way down the west coast and along the south coast to Antalya. I stayed in almost all of the major resorts, including villages off the beaten track, and also stayed in working towns etc. And I never saw one Turk drunk. Ever.

But if as you claim: " One thing they do not do is look particularly drunk or make a lot of noise about it. They just sit around with their bottles of Raki or beer. Of course it's not all of them but I know of quite a few and have noticed them in several resorts." Maybe I have indeed seen lots of Turkish drunks, too, but never noticed as they don't look drunk! I'm curious to know how you are able to determine they're drunk if they don't behave as though they are?

Actually, most seasonal workers in resorts go back home to their families in the winter; they never usually stay in the resorts as there's nothing for them to do - and they have nowhere to live. The people you see who are fixing up their boats obviously live their all year round.

I agree with you that the present government is anti-alcohol; hence the shocking price increases - but their reason for doing that is not to try and discourage tourism - they are doing it because they are staunch Muslims and they don't want Turks to drink. As for tourists, cultural tourists could easily spend just as much on alcohol as someone going on a two week package deal to Marmaris; just because someone wants to see Turkish culture doesn't mean they don't enjoy a drink. And just because someone wants to do a culture trial doesn't mean they'll spend lots of money.

The reason Turkey built up resorts such as Marmaris, Gumbet, Hisaronu etc is because they saw the potential. They would have been mad NOT to capitalise on the location. I personally don't like Marmaris, but lots of people do. So why shouldn't less well-off Brits have the chance of a holiday in the sun if it's within their budget? If places such as Marmaris are prepared to offer heavily discounted holidays, what's wrong in that? You yourself don't have to visit the place. By the way, I'm not sure if you realise or not, but in Turkey the word 'yabanci' is quite derogatory.

However, I do agree with you that Turkey has become much more expensive, and by all accounts it isn't the welcoming and friendly country it once was. Maybe that's to do with all the government price hikes and the pressure it's put on businesses. When businesses start becoming desperate for trade it can tempt them into overcharging/hassling - all manner of things. Watering down spirits - there's lots of tricks that go on. I think before, people thought of Turks as very friendly, and some of them genuinely are. But people need to realise it's in their own interests to be friendly - friendliness equals tips and returning custom.

Les, the Voices Newspaper Altinkum is a local ex-pat paper just for the Altinkum area. The Hurriyet Newspaper is the one you want to read if you want to keep abreast of what's going on in Turkey.

Strawberry

Thank you Strawberry, I will take that on board. The reason I mentioned Voices is because we have an apartment in Altinkum and so, for us, it is the paper we've adopted.

Les

Nobody has actually mentioned any figures in all this talk about tax increases, so I've just been reading up a little on it, and as an example, it says that the extra tax on a litre of beer will be 44 kurus, and if a bottle of beer is half a litre this would work out at around a 10p increase per bottle depending on the exchange rate. If I've worked this out correctly I don't think it would make it more expensive than the UK, and certainly not one of the most expensive places in the world!

No plumpud , afraid that info you got is wrong.wish you was right tho! hope the mods wont mind me putting this link up to the newspapper turkish daily news. its the biggest paper in turkey a bit like the times over here.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turkish-tourism-industry-in-heat-on-tax-hike-on-alcohol-2010-11-01

Alcohol tax has been hiked up to 30% raki gin vodka have soared and wine and beer also scary bit is that theyre worried that bootleggers will start making illegal brews and people can die if its made up wrong or with bad stuff. nightmare

turkeys shot itself in foot i think. cant remember who said it on here but someone said the restaurants and so on would put everything up to try and make the drinks prices not look so bad. bang on! my mate said that all the hotel owners bars and restraunts do that so you dont notice it so much. examples, chips that was 2lira would be 2.50lira, same with meat starters soft drinks tea cofffee everything...........not that noticeable but when you get the bill at the end its much more than normal. so what they do is put the alcohol tax rise spread out on the grub and soft drinks so you dont notice so much. another problem besides dodgy illegal booze is that there will be more watering down, putting fake stuff into brand bottles, all that will get worse. wine has really gone up allready but that was allways mouthrot anyways, worse vinegar ever had on me chips

the price rise will put everything else up too , thats why everyone is hopping mad. peeps who dont drink will be paying for other folks boozing