I have checked Olympics booking condiitons HERE and yes a change of accommodation/resort is classed as a 'significant' change.

However, they havent changed their accommodation as they are still offering to let them go there - allbeit they would have had a terrible holiday due to the closure of resort. Hmmm.

I would give Ros Fernihough a ring to see what advise she recommends. her telephone number is 0845 2262332 (local) or 01922 621114 .

Keep us updated.

Kath HT Admin

I was just about to post the same Kath. The trouble is they gave them the option of staying in Kavos even though it is end of season. I think it would therefore be difficult to argue change of resort, but perhaps Ros could advise differently.

I would agree with tracytreacle1 and kath. Your friends could have stayed in Kavos but it seems Olympic offered a change of resort as an option given that Kavos would be very quiet at this time of year.

You may also find some mention of this in the brochure. Many tourist resorts in Greece and Turkey do seem to wind-down at the end of season (October) with shops, bars and restaurants closing - although there is normally some still open.

Much as it was probably disappointing for them, they probably would be better in Sidari in October and I do think that Olympic have propably done them a favour.

resort of kavos was closed until next year. The rep said that olympic holidays had not known this until two days earlier!!!!

TOs have no control over when local bar and taverna owners decide that the season has ended and decide to shut up shop for the winter - it's perfectly possible that this really did only happen at very short notice. Things do wind down on the Greek islands from mid-October onwards and every brochure I have ever looked at does carry warnings about this - the islands are not an all year round destination. Nor will any TO guarantee the availability of facilities and services that they have no contractual relationship with. Kavos is a town with independently owned bars etc, not a purpose-built resort with guaranteed facilities provided by a single 'resort' owner. Yes, they haven't got the holiday they would have liked but they were getting the holiday they contracted for with Olympic. This is always the risk you run when you book at the tail end of the season and anybody looking for a busy, lively resort in the last week in October is ill advised to look at the Greek islands.

Ros can advise you on the finer points but it does look to me as if Olympic have more than honoured their side of the bargain. Realising that your friends might have been looking for a livelier resort than Kavos was by Saturday they offered them the option of moving, which your friends decided to take up. Olympic didn't change the resort - you're friends did and could have opted to stick with the original arrangment. It could have been worse - Olympic could simply have decided that it wasn't their problem that the bars and tavernas had decided there wasn't enough custom to warrant staying open any longer and just left them to it.

SM

If they had been notified before flying out they could have had the option to cancel. By not telling them until they arrived it seems that they had no other option than to continue with the holiday thereby accepting what was on offer. They only knew about it 2 days earlier? Time enough then to telephone the clients at home and see what they wanted to do. Sorry but I smell a rat (Meester Fawlty ).Some nifty footwork there !!

If they had been notified before flying out they could have had the option to cancel.

Yes, they could have cancelled - and lost all their money - would they really have wanted to do that? On the basis of the information provided I can't see that either their insurance policy or Olympic would have considered that sufficient grounds for a refund. Everybody has been quite diplomatic about this so far but to be blunt this problem has only arisen because they didn't do their research in advance and hence booked for the tail end of the season when Greek island resorts are already starting to wind down even if not fully closed up.

If they'd booked for an all-inclusive resort hotel that chose to shut down all its facilities early then I'd have said that they would certainly have had a case and I would have agreed with you that it's unlikely that Olympic wouldn't have known this in advance. But Greek shopkeepers and bar owners can be capricious and really are likely to have done this at short notice - nor would they have been under any obligation to inform any of the TOs. I bet there were other TOs reps who probably didn't even notice as quickly or feel obliged to take any action about it but instead just shrugged their shoulders and took the line that it was the clients own fault for booking so late in the season.

In the end, only someone like Ros with specialist knowledge of holiday contract law can tell them whether they have a case or not but in my experience all TOs offering holidays in late October to the Greek islands make sure they cover themselves in the small print for just this sort of eventuality and I'd be very surprised to find out that an experienced operator like Olympic didn't have this caveat somewhere in their brochure.

It strikes me that the situation is comparable to one I've experienced in the Alps where no one can guarantee when the summer weather will break and when the chair lifts and mountain huts will shut down until the winter season gets under way. On two different holidays in Austria the first autumn storms happened early, well before the end of September, with heavy snowfalls on the mountain tops, the chair lifts closed a week early, the mountain hutkeepers literally closed up the shutters and came back down to the valleys and all the local farmers agreed to bring down the cattle and goats from the high alms to their winter shelters. The latter is actually wonderful to see and we were glad to catch it because the animals are all decorated with wreaths flowers entwined in their horns and have decorated cowbells around their necks etc and each herd is paraded through the town on their way to the valley homesteads. The whole thing has quite a carnival atmosphere. with homemade schnapps being handed out to the crowd by the herders with much singing and dancing in the evening. We regarded it as a bonus to be there to see it before we left home even though it curtailed our walking plans for the remaining few days but we heard the following year that some people who'd booked to go to Kitzbuhel the week after on the basis of expecting to be there for the 'homecoming' had complained bitterly and tried to claim compensation from their TO. The pensione owner we stayed with thought it hilarious that anybody should be so foolish as to think that these things could be guaranteed and I think that bar owners in Kavos are quite likely to take the same attitude and there is little that TOs can do about it.

SM

I do wonder if we might not see a posting complaining that everything was shut.

It does seem very easy to blame the TOs for problems that common-sense should tell us that they cannot be responsible for everything.

Whilst in Cyprus I was told that two hotels had only opened for two months this year.

The TOs concerned had no idea that the owners were going to do this when they put them in the brochure a year ago.

I have no doubt that many who were let down blamed the TO rather than the owners.

The people concerned in this case have at least been given a choice.

fwh

Hi, many thanks for all your comments, I will get my friends to read through them when they return on Saturday and will let you know if they decide to take any further action.

If they had been notified before flying out they could have had the option to cancel. By not telling them until they arrived it seems that they had no other option than to continue with the holiday thereby accepting what was on offer. They only knew about it 2 days earlier? Time enough then to telephone the clients at home and see what they wanted to do. Sorry but I smell a rat (Meester Fawlty ).Some nifty footwork there !!

Totally agree hbrac.
You can't compare the weather in the Alps to this, as no one has control over the weather and whilst booking a holiday late in the season is going to be quiet in such places as the Greek Islands and the Balearic Islands, it is not a one off occurrence and really one should ask, if the TO's should stop selling holidays when they know ( and they do know!) the resorts are coming to end of their season and the majority of the facilities will not be open.

Sanji

Hi,

Just on the above point - I'm not sure TO's should stop selling holidays when the resort is winding down as many of us book a resort at that time of year because it it!

I went to Malia last October and would never go in peak season - I knew it would be quiet with only a few bars but that's what I wanted and I paid a very good price for it - which going with Olympic I'm guessing your friends did too.

I think there is a level of personal resbonsibility to be taken here as it really is up to you to do a bit of research before you book etc. It reads as if they could have chosen to go to Kavos but decided to take the other option - so I have no idea what they would claim for.

What we should also remember is that the Tour operator would have fulfilled what the brochure describes, e.g. a room as described, hotel facilities as described etc.

Trying to seek compensation for facilities that are not available under the direct control of Tour Operators (such as closure of 3rd party's facilities) paves the way for even more stringent T&C's and higher brochure prices.

And as the previous poster has stated, some of us may well seek out a quite resort for a price that is usually lower than the peak season.

It all comes to down to research. And that is where Holidaytruths comes into play. A simple message in the Greece forum might have answered the question about lack of facilities prior to going onto a holiday to a destination you've never been to.

Mark

I'm not sure TO's should stop selling holidays when the resort is winding down as many of us book a resort at that time of year because it it!

Me too - places like Kavos and Malia in the high season wouldn't be my thing at all but at the right price I could well be tempted at this time of year and have enjoyed a holiday in western Crete at the tail end of the season precisely because things were starting to wind down. A friend similarly regularly goes to Magaluf when she knows it will be quiet but wouldn't dream of going in the height of the season. It really is up to us do our research in advance and take some responsibility for ourselves.

SM

I wouldn't want to go to Kavos again at any time of year, I think they had a very lucky escape.
We were stupid enough to book a Thomson late deal to Corfu one year, and ended up there with our 13 year old daughter. I have never been anywhere as awful, before or since, and sincerely hope I never will. I don't know much about Sidari, but it must be a better option.

Do you know hindsight is a wonderful thing and it must be boring being so perfect.
How many members join this forum or ask questions after the event.?

I have been to Mallorca at the beginning of October and yes the resort has been quiet, but the shops/bars have still been open and we thoroughly enjoyed it.
I made the mistake of booking the next year and 10 days later, which brought me into the second half of October.
Big mistake....those 10 days made all the difference and TO's know that by the second half of October the chances of anything being open are slim.
Maybe I should have been more specific and said the TO's season should end a few weeks earlier than they do at present.

Sanji

I totally agree Sanji, its the same with the Algarve. The majority of bars & restaurants close down 31st October, open for Christmas/New year & then close again until March but the brochures of TO's never state this, making it sound that the Algarve is an all round season resort with everything going on like the summer months. There are still lots of places open but some people would be disappointed when they get there thinking the place would be in full swing. Personally I prefer the out of season months but lots of people may not. So come on travel agents / TO's paint a better picture in your winter brochures then the majority of holiday folks would maybe happy. Cheers Jayjan

Another problem wih travel agents 'winter sun' brochures is just that. They call them winter SUN, and many of the places tha they feature whilst having an improved temperature over the UK during Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb etc certainly don't have guaranteed sunshine.

I know seasoned travellers might be aware of this, but it can be very misleading to someone looking for their first ever 'winter sun' break.

Sorry. Rant over.

Its great to read everyones opinion on this one. I first went to Kavos when I was 9 (approx 28 years ago!!!) and I last went in 1989 and vowed never to return as far too lively then. My friend hasnt been abroad for 20 years and I did explain that the resort would be quiet as its the end of the season, which is what she was after. However I do not think that TO's should sell holidays so late in the season if there is a chance that all resort facilities will be closed as you not only choose your accommadation but you choose the resort. She along with others on her flight were moved to Sidari, and hopefully she has managed to have an enjoyable time. The only problem with this is that the TO knew the resort was closed before she travelled and should have surely informed her of the options of moving resort or cancelling before she travelled, as once in Corfu and wanting to have a good holiday she had really no options except to move resort. I have heard from her and it seems things are going from bad to worse....no hot water....no electricity.......oh and its raining (can't blame TO for that!)

Your friend is still entitled to safe and healthy accommodation wherever she is. If things are dire then she needs to collect her evidence ie photo's etc and report any complaints to the rep asap.

I totally agree Jay & Doe.
I'm sorry, but I don't agree that the total responsibility should fall at the consumer's feet.
Some are naïve and not well travelled, some take holidays solely on the recommendation of friends, but others take the word of TA's and their brochures, and some of the information that they gather is not correct because the relevant sources are economical with the truth.

Let's take the Island of Mallorca as an example, and it could apply to Ibiza, the Greek Island, Portugal etc.

The TO's use the 31st October as a blanket date to mark the end of the summer season and if you are in the capital Palma or say Magaluf, then the chances are that the season will wind down until that date or within a few days of that date.
However, go to Cala de Mallorca, a resort on the eastern side of the Island and well before the 31st October, that resort will be shut up and finished.
If the weather breaks, the date could be brought even further forward by the shopkeepers who see no point in working for the dwindling chance of a sale.

The people who this thread applies to, haven't been abroad for 20 years and many others like them are not told the whole truth or it is glossed over with remarks like "the resort will be quiet" ..being quiet and being shut up, are two different things.
It's not a one of occurrence, it's been happening for 30 years to my knowledge and therefore TO's also know, but the TO's still sell the holidays to these resorts.

IMO, It's not the customer than needs to do the research, but rather the people flogging the holiday in the first place .bums on seats are cash and they'll rake the revenue in as long as they can get away with it, and then try and blame the taverna owners.

We don't live in a perfect world and we all make mistakes, but there is no excuse for TO's to sell holidays to places that they KNOW have a habit of closing earlier than their blanket date.

Sanji