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Many thanks
David

I was due to fly out yesterday with XL and yes my tickets where issued by freedom flights and I am covered to get my money back, Summaster whom I booked the holiday through are sending me out a claim form to be fair to the company they did phone me yestereday morning to expalin it all to me. I have rebooked to to out to Dalaman with Thomas Cook on Monday night to the same hotel and it was booked seperate the hotel is not affected.

HI,
I'm trying to get a claim form to claim a refund from CAA and find that the links John123 and FWH provided on page 30 take me to a website where it states- requested file does not exist. Any further help on obtaining a claim form on-line please.

Hi Shirley,

Try this page and click on the relevent company name. Hope it works for you:-

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1804&pagetype=90&pageid=10048

Mark

Hi Mark757,
thanks for that. I've managed to download a claim form for Freedom flights. I'm now totally confused
According to my CC company and some others on here I should claim back the cost of the flights through the CAA as Freedom flights is covered by Atol. However, the Freedom Flights claim form states that if I've paid for the flights by CC that I should contact them for a refund. I've already put a request in the post for a refund from the CC company but just to be safe I'm also going to fill out this claim form against the CAA. Things could be made a lot clearer as I'm receiving contradicting advice from the Tour operator and the CC company

No doubt shirley they are both hoping you will claim off somebody else :think. I also had a standard email from our tesco cc yesterday which basically gave you 3 ways to deal with the situation if you have one and who to claim from . Claiming from my Tesco credit card was obviously the last on the list and this no doubt was the purpose of the email. I dont believe for one minute they were trying to be helpful , just limiting their payout .

We Booked through Freedom Direct Holidays(ABTA Protected) using a Debit Card, not related to Freedom Flights nor XL and were due to fly with XL on Monday to Turkey. When the balloon went up, my wife received a text from Freedom Direct to contact them. By 5pm last night, we were fixed up with the same holiday but a week later and all in all, the package is better than that what we originally Booked !! Okay, we have had to lay out for the holiday all over again but Freedom Direct have been excellent, in fact, we received the claim form this morning.

Naturally I feel sorry for those who have not got the finance to do this, also for those who have lost not only their initial outlay of money but also their holiday. In the national press to-day there is the story of terminally ill Scott Schofield who has been robbed of a dream trip to Disney World, I sincerely hope that there is some kind hearted person out there that can help fulfil this persons dream. Also, my sympathies go out to all the XL Employees who are about to be made redundant and hope that they all get to find jobs shortly.

Les

Glad you got sorted Les

With regard to finance.....If I am understanding it correctly, If you go to Thomson with paperwork for an XL holiday that has ATOL protection, they will claim that on your behalf and allow you to book a holiday with them using your refund as a 'credit'. You would have to find the difference in costs but that will be lot less than paying for a complete holiday.

Has anybody tried this ?

John.

The XL topic was discussed on Jeremy Vine on Radio2 yesterday and what you are saying John was recommended by the expert. To take all your paperwork to Thomson for them to sort out a holiday of similar value. We've had to pay an extra £120 but at least we've now got peace of mind, whereas before, we were expected to make phonecalls about flights and transfers at designated times, both going out and coming home. Now, all that is sorted, the transfer is there with a representative and we've got a representative in resort. Okay, our flight is five hours later going out but it is three hours earlier coming home. On top of this, we've got 20kg baggage allowance instead of 15kg which means more room for those Turkish bargains !! Our holiday is for twelve days and this gives us the full weekend to get sorted out on our return in readiness for going back to that four letter swear word !!!! I see on the opening page of my computer that people are already being brought back.

Les

When you download the form page 1 explains about credit card payments. The CAA/ATOL will request information regarding payment and once you mention CC then they will call a halt and refer you to that paragraph.

It is a very painless exercise I can assure you.

fwh

Hello.... came across your forum searching the internet for the answer to these questions:-

How much was XL owing at the time of the bankruptcy?

What is the cost of the rescue plan e.g aircraft charters by CAA to pick up stranded passengers

It is also unfortunate that we have tremendous fuel wastage and environmental damage caused by the need to fly empty rescue aircraft to collect returning passengers when maybe the receivers (if they new they would bear responsibility for this) could have come up with an urgent alternative plan.

There must be a cost benefit analysis of the difference between these prices and the distress and inconvenience caused travellers on holiday and those who have lost their holidays.

There is of course the factor of the loss of employment to Xcel Airways staff and crew and this needs to be added to the equation.

Another issue that concerns me is why some travellers in the Xcel group were totally unprotected and it seems to be there may have been deliberate efforts to structure the organisation to remove consumer protection. Information on the web seems to be vanishing as websites are closing and I apologise therefore for quoting in full what should normally be a link:-

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2006/11/09/22792/medlife-hotels-to-enter-longhaul-travel-market-9-nov.html

In my view the Government have obligations and responsibilities here that they have chosen to ignore to the prejudice of the consumer in favour of the business community.

Rather late in the day the issue of protection for ALL passengers is now a topic that is being discussed. The government three years ago decided/rejected the proposal. Oh how we can with hindsight say that it was wrong.

The problem here is how to answer the questions raised without a long discourse political and ethical.

A cost benefit analysis, ignoring the distress and inconvenience has political overtones. Why can Northern Rock be rescued yet not Excel? I will leave you to answer that. Discussing the environmental impact only distracts from the real issue.

Why not use the excel planes sat on the ground for the rescue? There is a cost either way but use of the Excel fleet does not cost anything but wages, fuel and landing fees.
I am sure that the operators providing aircraft are doing so at a profit. In business there is no altruistic motive. It is all about hard cash. That is the other problem. We have no idea what monies are owed in Cyprus, Greece etc and there is the danger that the aircraft, if used for the rescue, would be impounded as a means of extracting payment. Better they are held here.

There has been a call for the American style chapter 11 system where a company may continue in business whilst attempts are made to restructure or rescue it. Whilst there is merit in the idea I wonder if the calls are from the many other companies who have financial problems (not yet declared) and see it as a way of avoiding the drop, or perhaps facing up to the manner in which they have conducted their business.

We as individuals see so many things that we consider wrong. It always seems to be big business looking after the wealthy few, rather than everyone.

Members of HT have been very busy posting information and advice for those who are affected. I am sure many have found that of great help at this stressful time.

Wider discussion is not the purpose or within the T&Cs of the site, but any sensible views expressed can only be of benefit. Most of us contribute on other websites and pass them comments on to others. With a little luck they may actually change things for the better.

fwh

Wordlife to HT

fwh - answered whilst i typed so a bit of editing has gone on

From what I've read/heard/watched......

XL owed between £120 and £140 million but I guess this was actually a lot more as an investment bank who XL had borrowed off, took the German and French operations as part payment of the debt. They are still operating as normal. I belive the bond held was around £40 million and the repatriation costs/refunds might be as much as £60 million.

Government getting involved - don't make me laff - Northern Rock threatened their economic policy - this didn't. Nice to see other tour ops getting involved even if it's only to fill up their empty seats/accomodation or get paid for using idle planes. Made me laugh to see the lead singer of Iron Maiden taking off to 'rescue' passengers in Sharm.

Very true on the wastage of fuel sending out empty planes and I agree with fwh that Excel planes could have been used but insovency rules are pretty draconian.

You've got to feel sorry for the staff, all you can hope is that some of the routes will be taken by other operators and replace some of the jobs.

Yes some were unprotected. It's a risk I have taken booking 'DIY' but been aware of the risk. Maybe something needs to be done here - compulsory surcharge for ATOL protection on ALL flights ? My next annual insurance WILL have airline failure cover.

John

Thank you for your welcome and I apologise if as a "newbie" I have diverted the true intent of this thread.

Maybe if it is within the remit of Holiday-Truth forums my original post and associated answers should be more appropriately placed in a different thread - perhaps something along the lines of:-

Prevent future XL and Excel Airways disasters - call to change bankruptcy laws

If it would have protected or helped current XL/Excel customers it certainly be useful to have more information as to how they were let down by the Government's refusal to make changes to the law by links or summary.

Certainly the Americans seem to have the answer to keeping potentially bankrupt airlines flying and prevent the need to impound aircraft in foreign lands.

We should not take a limited view of cost benefit analysis! This would not exclude the distress and inconvenience and uncovered financial losses to travellers on holiday or having their holidays disrupted.

As a taxpayer I am not certain my best interests are being served in making Government and official debts the preferred creditors if the receiver's obligations mean total neglect of maintaining responsibility to customers and adding to the unemployed and those needing benefit support!

We have other Companies jumping on the bandwagon and saying "Your Holiday is Safe with Us". What is the actual cashflow situation of these Companies? What are their reserves in relation to debt? Could one of these be the next XL/Excel?

It is imperative there are changes in the law and maybe if it cannot be covered here links could be provided to more appropriate sites.

We have other Companies jumping on the bandwagon and saying "Your Holiday is Safe with Us". What is the actual cashflow situation of these Companies? What are their reserves in relation to debt? Could one of these be the next XL/Excel?

I think we must remember that a great number of travellers were covered by ATOL, and although they will have suffered from the loss of their booked holiday and more than a little distress, they should not lose financially. The same will apply to rebooking with other ATOL companies.
From posts in this thread it looks like the repatriation and refund process is working.
Personally, I don't think a government scheme would have worked any better or quicker.

There are posts on this thread a couple of weeks ago discussing the financial problems that XL may be facing so maybe the warning signs were there ? Not much help if you booked 12 months ago though.

Maybe it will make the general travelling public more aware of potential problems and check they have ATOL cover or a suitable insurance policy ?

I hope that some of the aircraft and routes will be taken on by other operators and so they will need crew and staff for them. Maybe a little bit of hope for 1700 odd employess who have little, if any hope of financial help.

John.

Hi John/Worldlife, Before we committed to Booking with Freedom Direct Holidays, we checked that they were ABTA/ATOL protected. As i've said in an earlier post, they have been excellent and got us fixed up with the same holiday but through Holidays 4U. The last debt figure I heard of was £143m. People in Hotels abroad were getting kicked out because XL hadn't paid the Bill.

Les

This holiday for me was so important to my children as they nearly lost their dad to cancer early on in the year,and bless them have had to wait till this september to have their holiday!!!!! So you can understand how excited they really are,they have had a tough year......
So when the collapse of xl airlines was mentioned on the news friday morning we where devastated!!!!!
Was straight on the phone and got nowhere for hours,was 2oclock before i got anywhere. But in the end i found out i could get my money back as we booked with freedom flights and they where atol protected!!!!! phew......
Anyway the fact of the matter is i straight away had to rebook and found that with us having paid £175 each with xl we where paying £306 with another company,times that by 4 and it was a hell of alot more!!!!! Also the late booking fee which we had to pay was £60,which we wouldn't have paid before with xl!!!!!!
All in all the holiday was an extra £500 more,but really shouldn't complain as there are people out there in a much worse position hey!!!!!
What really grated me was that staff at xl where asking the day before if their jobs where safe,to be told that everything was ok to find the next morning they never had a job...disgusting!!!
Also taking bookings up to midnight before,so taking customers money knowing that they where going under?????
I feel that we where lucky to get our money back but i still think with us flying with bmi that our payment went to bmi but bmi told me on the phone that they wheren't taking any xl customers!!!! So does that mean bmi still got our money but in that situation with xl they didn't want to get involved leaving bmi customers stranded??????
Thankfully we are still going away.....

Hi,
Due to the collapse of XL airlines, please can anyone help me. My sister was due to fly home this morning from Kalamata airport in Greece to Manchester and has been given an alternative flight number. When i have checked the flight number it is expected to land at Gatwick. Is this the normal thing to happen (landing at a different airport).

As you can imagine, i would be grateful for any repliess.
thank you
Linsi

rescue flights as they are known are only guaranteed to get you back to the country of residence not necessarily the same part of that country

sorry

wiz