It's not just you, Sunaddict, I am the same but clearly not everybody is and I am equally flummoxed as to why apparently some people sign up for things without making sure that they understand them.

SM

I agree with what you're saying there , , I personally use certain websites usually the main suppliers , but seeing examples of certain websites who piece together and use different suppliers and create chains seem to have very complex T&Cs and IMO a poor level of service when dealing with problems and changes because the package seems to put together in a more complex way than most people imagine , I think that people and the OP place a trust and trust a name like Thomas Cook but find out that they are just packaging things up like lesser known companies who they don't place as much trust in .

andy66 wrote:

I agree with what you're saying there , , I personally use certain websites usually the main suppliers , but seeing examples of certain websites who piece together and use different suppliers and create chains seem to have very complex T&Cs and IMO a poor level of service when dealing with problems and changes because the package seems to put together in a more complex way than most people imagine , I think that people and the OP place a trust and trust a name like Thomas Cook but find out that they are just packaging things up like lesser known companies who they don't place as much trust in .

As someone who did have to read and understand T&Cs at one point in my working life people need to understand that they are there for a purpose, and it is not only to protect the supplier. Yes they can seem complicated if you do not normally have to read through such things but even a quick scan will tell you the important parts. People think they have rights and scream unfair, but what about the supplier - a TO in this case. Don't they have rights?

We only ever hear form people who complain that they "did not know" never from those who have taken time to read the T&Cs and doing so have found them in their favour. I booked a holiday recently on a low deposit scheme. Knowing that the balance would be due in May I contacted the TO and asked them to confirm the date this was due before making the booking. Two days after I jet off to Spain so I can be sure to make the payment before I go. If I don't then the TO are within their rights to cancel and charge me. It is in the T&Cs and I accept that.

In this case the OP has booked a holiday and personal circumstances have intervened causing them to want to change the holiday. With respect to them the the TO has taken a booking for a holiday and done nothing wrong. You cannot complain that the TO for having a cancellation/change policy that seems to be unfair. It is there in the T&Cs. The real problem is someone has booked a holiday with TC which is what we would call a Dynamic Package. Nothing wrong with that but the real question is what holiday has been booked? Is it a holiday advertised in a TC brochure or has someone said I want to go to X and stay in Y hotel? If it is the former then yes the charges are unfair but if the latter then if TC are not advertising that holiday in their brochure then it becomes a Dynamic Package and unfortunately, as we so often hear on H,T it becomes expensive.

I can understand how the OP feels with a close relative going into hospital but TC have not actually done anything wrong as far as I can see from what we have been told.

One further point I would make about T&Cs - we would not have known about this if they had worked in the OPs favour.

fwh

I think the real problem is that someone books a holiday at say Thomas Cook ( on the Internet or in store ) the customer recognises the name , the brand , they have trust in the name because its well known , been in business a long time and has some credibility , they honestly believe they are booking a package with a well respected name , I know they should look more closely and read all the T&CS thoroughly but hold on its Thomas Cook , a famous name , of course you can trust them , they're not some dodgy fly by night outfit , of course they're doing nothing wrong by piecing together a package from different suppliers and they are disclosing everything in their T&CS but exactly how clear and transparent is it that you are booking a package that could be difficult to make changes to if an issue should arise ? And how costly too .

You feel that you have no worries , after all its a well respected operator , perhaps it is misguided but you have trust in them , because you have purchased a package from Thomas Cook , and in the majority of cases everything will be just fine unless you have a genuine problem like the OP has described because the package has been put together with various suppliers and this makes for more complex T&CS, they might be stringent , might be a little unfair but you have ticked to accept them , so basically tough luck . With hindsight it probably pays to not be so trusting and just assume that by using a big and well respected name in the travel industry that you are going to get something you imagine you actually booked and that the T&CS would be reasonable and fair if a problem occurred , I think from a well known company a certain level of customer service is expected , not a refusal to help or pass the problem up the line .

I think some of these packages and how they're done are difficult to understand with all different suppliers and their individual rules , you can buy a holiday from Thomas Cook and they have no part in it apart from piecing it altogether .

It's like buying a product from John Lewis online which is then provided by Primark and delivered by Matalan , it's not what you expect , and then when you want a refund you get passed around .

My thoughts too Andy. It is complicated, in this situation, for those who aren't as clued up on various holiday packages using a brand such as TCook. If they were discussing who their holiday was with they would more than likely say Thomas Cook, not a DIY via Thomas Cook.

It maybe easier if, when booking a 3rd party flight on their website, if they were to display a link saying for eg 'You are about to book a 3rd party flight, please read their conditions before proceeding'

I've been across to Thomson's website for their flight only T&C's :-

How do I make changes to, or cancel, my flight only booking?

Changes

You can make amendments to your Thomson Airways flight by calling us on 0871 231 4787 - please have your booking reference number to hand. (Calls cost 10p per minute plus network extras).

Any changes you need to make are subject to amendment fees - please see your booking conditions for details. Please note that you will be required to pay the difference if there is any increase in fare, and some flights will incur cancellation charges.

You need to make any changes at least 2 days before you travel. Just so you know, our contact centre isn't open 24 hours a day and there may be long waiting times at peak periods - so please leave plenty of time for changes to be made.

After this time, passenger names can be changed on arrival at the airport for a fee of £90 per name changed. All other changes will incur a 100% cancellation fee.

Glynis and Andy, when you book Flight+Hotel on the Thomas Cook website it is clear right from the beginning who the flights will be with. Right from the preliminary search results it is very clear which airline the flight tickets will be booked with so if that's the way the OP booked, they will have known that the flights were with Thomson, no ifs and buts. It's one of the good things about their website - you can quickly eliminate any holidays based on airlines you want to avoid. So then the OP could have also checked direct with the Thomson website for the T&Cs that applied to their flight and discovered just like the Thomas Cook website states, that changing some flights will incur cancellation charges as your quote makes clear.

Also, as far as I can see on their website, the only way you can tick the box to say that you have read and accept their T&Cs is by actually opening the link to them. So OK, no one can actually make someone read them having done that but you can't just tick the box without first going to the page where they are there to be read.

SM

I've just done a dummy run on their website for Flight and hotel and this is what it states on that opening page:-

Flight + Hotel

Are you looking for choice on your holiday? Are you looking for a holiday at a great price with the all-important elements covered? Choose a flight and hotel package holiday from Thomas Cook and you can enjoy independent travel with flights and accommodation included.
Hide text

With a flight and hotel deal from Thomas Cook you can enjoy your holiday exactly as you dreamed it, with all of the important elements, flights and accommodation, covered, giving you extra peace of mind. Whether you are looking for a beach holiday in the sun, a ski holiday or a city break, a flight and hotel deal from Thomas Cook is the perfect choice. With a flight and hotel package your travel and accommodation is taken care of, but everything else can be moulded to become exactly what you want it to be.

Flight and hotel deals are a convenient way to travel independently, you can choose the exact day, time and location you fly from as well as choosing a hotel perfect for you. Thomas Cook has plenty of top-notch hotels, in all your favourite destinations, to choose from, giving you the flexibility to need to enjoy your break. So, whether you are looking for a budget holiday with a small hotel, boutique accommodation or a hotel on the beachfront, a Thomas Cook flight and hotel deal will give you exactly what you want.

Flight and hotel packages from Thomas Cook combined convenience with flexibility, ensuring you get the holiday you really want.

And if you had continued it would have become clearer that you are booking something different to their standard in-house TC packages. This complaint hinges on whether it is reasonable to expect someone to check the T&Cs before confirming their booking. I think it is but you and Andy seem to think that it isn't and we will just have to accept that we don't agree on that.

As with any purchase it is dangerous to assume that you know what the terms and conditions of sale are instead of checking them out but that is what the OP and many others who have complained here about bookings made under the Flexibletrips brand on Thomas Cook's website would seem to have done.

SM

SMa wrote:

And if you had continued it would have become clearer that you are booking something different to their standard in-house TC packages. This complaint hinges on whether it is reasonable to expect someone to check the T&Cs before confirming their booking. I think it is but you and Andy seem to think that it isn't and we will just have to accept that we don't agree on that.

It's not that I don't think its unreasonable for someone to check the T&C's at all. I do think though that it's not that clear who's T&C's to check initially. Also the fact that it mentions package holiday on their Flight and Hotel main page is confusing.

As with any purchase it is dangerous to assume that you know what the terms and conditions of sale are instead of checking them out but that is what the OP and many others who have complained here about bookings made under the Flexibletrips brand on Thomas Cook's website would seem to have done.

SM

we all agree to them but probably don't understand them fully to their extent

i am fully convinced that we are not meant to understand them.
Pages of small type filled with legal language, that rarely means what we think it does.
Clauses that seem to contradict the previous clause and the following one.

I'm not sure what is confusing about

Please also note that destination and date changes can be treated by some suppliers as a cancellation and rebooking, regardless of the period of notice given to us. Suppliers may charge up to 100% of the transport element of your booking and you must also pay the charge listed in the table above.

I would understand that to mean that if I want to change the date of my flights then I might forfeit 100% of what I've paid for them.

SM

Glynis HT Admin wrote:

I've just done a dummy run on their website for Flight and hotel and this is what it states on that opening page:-

Flight + Hotel

Are you looking for choice on your holiday? Are you looking for a holiday at a great price with the all-important elements covered? Choose a flight and hotel package holiday from Thomas Cook and you can enjoy independent travel with flights and accommodation included.
Hide text

With a flight and hotel deal from Thomas Cook you can enjoy your holiday exactly as you dreamed it, with all of the important elements, flights and accommodation, covered, giving you extra peace of mind. Whether you are looking for a beach holiday in the sun, a ski holiday or a city break, a flight and hotel deal from Thomas Cook is the perfect choice. With a flight and hotel package your travel and accommodation is taken care of, but everything else can be moulded to become exactly what you want it to be.

Flight and hotel deals are a convenient way to travel independently, you can choose the exact day, time and location you fly from as well as choosing a hotel perfect for you. Thomas Cook has plenty of top-notch hotels, in all your favourite destinations, to choose from, giving you the flexibility to need to enjoy your break. So, whether you are looking for a budget holiday with a small hotel, boutique accommodation or a hotel on the beachfront, a Thomas Cook flight and hotel deal will give you exactly what you want.

Flight and hotel packages from Thomas Cook combined convenience with flexibility, ensuring you get the holiday you really want.

Sounds great , I'm half packed already !! The spiel is music to my ears as the marketing blurb lays it on thick and creamy , sweet and very tasty . A great price ......all elements covered ......enjoy .....dream ......peace of mind ......perfect choice .......taken care of ......choose ...choose ....perfect for you .....flexibility to enjoy .....give you exactly what you want ....

Flight and hotel packages from Thomas Cook combined convenience with flexibility , ensuring you get the holiday you really want .

Absolutely fantastic a big name with a great reputation , years in the business , the trust has been bought , they must be fair and decent and have reasonable T&CS.

And despite your earlier comment SMa I do agree with you 100% that people should read the T&CS , I haven't said different , but I understand why people don't , and its not because they are stupid or lazy , it's because of the blurb above , they believe this company is wonderful , trustworthy , and surely the T&CS wouldn't be so harsh

" We will charge amendment fees EACH time you request us to make a change to your booking, but will not charge more than £150 per person or £500 per booking for EACH individual request made at any ONE time .
This DOES NOT include where cancellation charges are applied as shown .
Note 1 . Flights not operated by Thomas Cook Airlines . If your booking does not include a flight operated by Thomas Cook Airlines ( or includes any other form of transport eg Eurostar or if you have booked a Flexibletrips branded holiday, changes to your flight/ booking can be VERY RESTRICTIVE . We will pass on to you the cost imposed by the supplier , for any amendments THEY AGREE to make .

It's all a very different tone , 5 minutes ago they were waxing lyrical about dream ... Enjoy .... Flexibility ....perfect .... Taken care of , now because you want to make a change !!!! Whoaaa !!!!

People are sucked in ... They are in the business of selling and making as much money as possible , there's nothing too much wrong with that IMO , but the offer sounds great and yet it has very restrictive and punitive clauses , all perfectly legal but not exactly moral or what you would reasonably expect .

The first line of the T&CS, is We will charge amendment fees each time you request a change but no more than £150 , Blimey how much do they pay their staff ? Who in the OPs case was told to lump it and no you can't have the managers name !!!

Just to reiterate I do agree with people checking T&CS and this clearly highlights why , but I really expect fairer conditions and service from someone like TC , or perhaps like the OP I'm expecting too much .

is that the entirety of their TC's?

I can't believe some of the comments I've read on here. If people either can't be bothered to read the terms and conditions, or can't understand what is very clear, or are gullible enough to believe all the sales blurb (and that goes for everything, not just holidays) maybe they shouldn't be allowed to buy things on the internet unchaperoned!
I know we live in a nanny state, but it's about time people started to take responsibility for themselves. If they're not capable of doing it themselves, then get someone who is to do it for them.

Rant over - and over and out!

uknosferat2 wrote:

Thanks folks, I'm not actually the one going to hospital, its my mother and she wants me to be there and too be honest I want to be there for her. Wouldn't be much of a holiday knowing my mum was laid up in hospital on her own... I think the point i'm trying to make is why is it such a big deal for a holiday company to switch dates nearly 4 months away if the customer is willing to pay the admin fee.. Its not going to cost them anything..!

If only everything in life was so clear cut , if only we always made the right decisions and never made mistakes , if life was just about always following the rules and never letting the emotional side of our brain having any control

Sunaddict wrote:

it's about time people started to take responsibility for themselves. If they're not capable of doing it themselves, then get someone who is to do it for them.

Rant over - and over and out!

I thought that's why people went to travel agents , Experts in their field , able to explain everything clearly ???

Perhaps that's what the OP will do in future rather than booking via a website?

SM

Oh , so if had gone into the shop , they would have explained a more suitable package ? He might have even got to meet the nameless manager ? I assume its all the same company though ?

del949 wrote:

is that the entirety of their TC's?

Whose T&C's Del? If you mean the company they paid the money to then yes, they are the T&C's pertaining to 'Flight and Hotel' bookings. However, it appears that if you do book a flight or hotel then you need to check the T&C's of each individual part of your booking before proceeding & parting with your cash.

So before making any payment check the TO's T&C's, also check the carriers T&C's, the accommodation providers T&C's, &, if applicable, any transfer company's T&C's