Back on topic, reports I've read state that the town hall at Palma are still finalising details of the amount of the fines.
There's to be no open air drinking in the city centre also

That's true Glynis, I did a bit of delving last night and it's not been 'signed off' yet, the reason is because they have to give the opposition parties (PSIB-PSOE) time to scrutinise the draft, and lo and behold they are complaining that 2, 019 'claims' have been added to the new text, and that they only have 5 days to object, therefore, there will be special session take place on the 12th May, where it is expected the regulations will come into force.
http://www.lonostro.es/piden-la-retirada-de-la-nueva-ordenanza-civica-para-palma/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dordenanza%2Bcivica%2Bpalma%2Bde%2Bmallorca%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1536%26bih%3D729" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="break-word">http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.lonostro.es/piden-la-retirada-de-la-nueva-ordenanza-civica-para-palma/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dordenanza%2Bcivica%2Bpalma%2Bde%2Bmallorca%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1536%26bih%3D729
I did manage to bring up the whole draft last night, and good luck understanding some of it, there's been amendments made all through it.
http://www.palmademallorca.es/portal/PALMA/RecursosWeb/DOCUMENTOS/1/0_73994_1.pdf

1) They are (as I suspected) using the framework that was used in Barcelona. 2) The fines have been reduced from the proposed tariff in the original draft. 3) The 'crimes' have been categorised into 3 levels. 4) Following the adoption and publication of the official civic ordinance, an official information campaign will begin to make it known among tourists and locals, which will start from June about the sanctions in the area of Playa de Palma and from September in the city centre.

SANCTIONS
Minor offenses ( from 50 to 200 € ) (reduced from 100€ to 50€) shall be punished in the category of mild sanctions and include.
Go naked ; Making graffiti ; Hang posters or banners ; Improperly use public space for children to play ; Throwing cigarette butts or gum on the street ; Urinate or spit ; Clean carpets or draperies from the balcony or throw dirty water into the street (like the mop bucket ) .

Serious offenses (from 200 to 400 € ) shall be classified as severe penalties, Defecate in the street ( they mean dogs and people) graffiti on buses, parks, facades or signs . Circular bikes or skateboards risking the safety of pedestrians. Drugs on the street, Alcohol to cause inconvenience, or racist, sexist or homophobic behaviour in public .

Very serious offenses (from 400 to 600 € ) (reduced from €750) The acts considered and fined as very serious are... Paint graffiti, signs or banners placed on monuments or listed buildings. The shell game , The use of children, elderly or disabled people for begging or vandalism in the use of street furniture in behaviour that is a danger to third parties.
These are not all the rules and most of them are directed at the residents of Palma, such as emptying mop buckets, dogs defecating on the streets, shaking carpets over the balcony and vandalising monuments etc.

However, two rules I've not mentioned are 'balconing'' and the now published addition about the shell or pea men.
Anyone daft enough to jump off the hotel balcony into the swimming pool below, it will fall into the category of a very serious offence with a 600€ on the spot fine. The new rules have made the person doing the jumping liable and not the hotel.

The shell game - very often this comes up in the forums asking why they can't be taken off the streets and as I've explained in the past, the reason is because anything involving under 400 euros is classed by law as a minor offence with a paltry fine....which the pea men pay and are back on the street to recuperate the money in a short time.

The pea men make sure they never have more than €400 if they are caught and the money taken over the gambling table passes hands so quickly that it can be half a mile down the street within minutes, and as I've explained in the other forum, that if you take part and get swindled (which you always will) and take them to court, the judge will also fine you for partaking in illegal street gambling. Therefore, nobody will bring them to justice.

The new regulations in this civic ordinance make it clear that anyone partaking in the shell game, if they are caught, they will be fined and they've included this activity in the very serious crime bracket to whack up the fines.
It's really quite simple - if they had no punters, they wouldn't exist.
Finally, prostitution - In Spain it sits in a legal vacuum, it's neither legal or illegal - the prostitutes themselves will not be fined, the pimps will.
As I can speak a little Spanish and read it better than speaking it, I make no claims (trying to translate this document) that everything I've written in this post, is kosher.

Sanji x

If hotels or restaurants or public places display a dress code which they wish everyone to conform to then that's their right , and if they're not happy they will refuse you entry or ask for you to conform , obviously people have different ideas of what they think is suitable or perhaps they just don't look in the mirror often enough or at all . On my recent holiday they had a dress code for evening dinner , with long trousers and collared shirt for men , one young chap turned up in t shirt and shorts and was asked to change , another had tailored shorts and polo shirt and nothing said , he looked reasonable and smart , and a Scotsman wore a full kilt outfit and looked very smart , ok not long trousers exactly but no one was going to argue with him anyway as he was built like a brick $h*t house . I suppose its all down to people's interpretation of the rules and everyone has an opinion of what looks acceptable .
My opinion for evening meal is does it look like they have had a shower and change of clothes after being around the pool / beach all day ?? I find breakfast time can also be another time where hygiene and appropriate dress is questionable , I've seen people who've been jogging and are all sweaty and bursting out of their Lycra dripping all over the buffet , puts me right off my healthy choice of a full English followed by pain au chocolat with a triple expresso . People who drag themselves in picking the sleep out of their eyes and have bed hair , you know they haven't even washed their hands or cleaned their teeth , as they touch and breathe all over the food .

I'm not so much disgusted by people's dress sense , but their hygiene and behaviour , I will slouch around in tracky bottoms at home , but would never wear them in public , I would never wear a vest anywhere , why would I aspire to look like Onslow off K. Up A ( fantastic actor though RIP ) I only wear shorts on the beach / pool or unless I'm playing sport .

Nowadays people do seem to dress down , be a bit more casual , I don't wear a tie at work whereas my first job I had to , even though its very similar work , we used to wear loud and garish ties and they were banned under a new dress code , so we wore unbusinesslike socks instead !!! People will always be a bit rebellious , we in Britain seem to be very relaxed with general dress code , but we have to remember other countries do still have strict customs or expectations regarding clothing and that probably affects women more than men .

Sorry but I had already written it whilst Sanji replied

Just to add , that most of your post Sanji seems to be referring to people's behaviour and actions rather than their attire or lack of it . I agree with wearing swimwear in inappropriate areas and rules introduced to stop this but the big chunk of the new rules seem to be about stopping unruly or offensive behaviour .

nickmacuk wrote:

:really I thought it was legal to go naked in Spain :think

Be careful with that one.
It's legal because it's not been included in the constitution/penal code, which has been written and rewritten since the days of Franco, so technically it is legal to be naked.
The reason why it was not included, is because having lived under a dictatorship, the Spanish talk about freedom and they really do not like being told what to do.. The state no longer 'owns' them, therefore they have the freedom to do what they want with their own bodies.

Whilst it might technically be legal, there is a clause in the penal code that exists called "Exhibitionism and Sexual Próvocation". For example, for this law to apply regarding nudity, if you go plonk yourself on a public beach and go stark naked - there has to be no minors or handicapped persons around you - If the policia come along, you have to prove that you were there on the beach before them and there hadn't been a sexual intention, either to encourage third parties or to, ahem, err----excite yourself.

This is why prostitution sits in a legal vacuum - if a woman wants to have consensual sex with a man and he pays her for the service, either in gifts or money, it's a contract between two consenting adults, it's their bodies, therefore, where are they breaking any law?
It becomes the state's concern if minors are involved or if girls/women/boys/men have been forced (including human trafficking) into prostitution by a pimp. hence why the pimps are punished, and in some provinces they fine the clients if they are caught picking up girls off the street.

Sanji x

By, you've done a lot of research Sanji, thanks for that

Thanks for the explanations Sanji, trying to comply with one that may contravene another could be a hard one

del949 wrote:

etiquette if taken to the extreme logical conclusion used above, would lead to a police or fascist state.

Don't think so...
etiquette...the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group.
There's always those that say...any restriction on my behaviour is fascist. It's a lame excuse for generally being a vulgar yob.

Pollensa1946 wrote:

del949 wrote:

etiquette if taken to the extreme logical conclusion used above, would lead to a police or fascist state.

Don't think so...
etiquette...the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group.
There's always those that say...any restriction on my behaviour is fascist. It's a lame excuse for generally being a vulgar yob.

So true.