It looks to me that the cancellation date and departure date are fairly close together and usually with tour operators additional cancellation fees up to and including the full price of the holiday will apply.

How was the holiday booked? Was it via a tour operator or booked as a DIY package?

Mark

How was the holiday booked? Was it via a tour operator or booked as a DIY package?

If the flights were booked and paid for seperately he could probably be liable for the full cost , unless they were booked as some type of "flexible " ticket .

As mark says the cancellation and departure dates are very close .Normally you are liable for a percentage or the full cost if you cancel within about 8 weeks of departure . In other words once you have passed the date where the full balance is paid you are into loosing money other than just the deposit .

could he find someone to take his place. ??

Thanks for the replies,as i said in my original post some of the details are sketchy,we dont know as yet if it was a package or seperate flight/accomodation,i think the ideal senario is to find a replacement,but then you have got charges for name changes etc.Our main point would be the fact we had no access to the holiday documentation to view the cancellation policy and the fact he did not sign anything.We will look into it further and see what occurs,thanks for the input.

thinking about it I dont think any of my sons have ever been given any terms or conditions by the school for their ski trips. The only thing our letter normally tells us is that the deposit is non refundable. Having said that I do know of pupils that have pulled out but because there is always a big waiting list for these trips they just find a replacement .

Sorry, but maybe it's a hard lesson for your 18 year old to learn - don't sign for anything until you're in full possession of all the facts. May seem a bit harsh but as an adult he's now responsible for his own decisions. Why doesn't he want to go? What's wrong with the accommodation? Not meaning to be unsympathetic but generally, if you sign a contract then you're liable.

Agree with your sentiments and we have flagged this up with him,however,your post is not accurate in as much he did not sign anything and all commitments have been verbal only.

For whatever reason he isn't going and of course that is not what you came to us for.
I find it astounding that he never signed anything. I know when I even plan a day out with my class there is a mound of paperwork to do and parental consent. As he is 18 then the paperwork would have gone to him. I really cannot see that he agreed to go on this trip and signed nothing. If this is the case then the college is at fault and I can't see how they can enforce payment( but the experts here can put me right). However, if they cannot get someone to take his place then they will have to find the money he was due to pay. I would doublecheck with your son about what he does have, just in case.

There are two separate issues here - the legal one and the moral one. If he hasn't signed anything (though I doubt it as someone who has organised comparable trips) then, yes, it's probably going to be legally unenforceable. He mightn't have signed a 'contract' but he will have almost certainly filled in some sort of form when he handed over the deposit and I'd be surprised if he wasn't given a receipt for it as well. To my mind the college is probably going to regard that exchange as representing a contractual agreement. Also, in my experience (and I'm not saying that this applies to your son) students don't necessarily remember accurately what they've been told or what they've been given. Given how close the departure date is I'm surprised that you at least , even if your son didn't, would not have realised that he couldn't expect a full refund?

But there is also the moral argument to consider. We often have outraged posts on this forum from people who are the lead name on a booking only to have a 'friend' pull out at the last minute and thus leaving them liable for the full outstanding amount. They know that legally they are responsible but regard their 'friend' as having a moral obligation to ensure that they pay what is due. Such posters receive a lot of support and sympathy from the rest of us even if we do have to emphasise that there is little they can do to make their 'friend' cough-up. The question you have to ask yourself is whether you want to encourage your son to adopt the same 'make me' attitude? The college mightn't be able to legally make him pay but do you want to encourage him to avoid the moral responsibility of honouring the agreement he implicitly entered into when he booked his place on this trip and told the college he would go? I don't think that's a good lesson for an 18 yr old to learn.

And it will be worth pointing out to him that if he goes down the road of playing this by the letter of the law then he runs the risk of the college playing by exactly the same rules in the future in their dealings with him. And believe me - there will be lots of rules he's long forgotten that he signed up to when he registered for his course. I can certainly remember the great delight that colleagues took in explaining to one 'pain in the neck' that the reason why he was not on the Graduation list for his degree was because he still owed £2 in library fines! He had cheerfully ignored all the reminders to pay it and didn't believe that the University really would enforce their rule that all debts had to be cleared before a student could graduate for the sake of just £2. But they could and did - and he not only missed the Graduation ceremonies that all his pals were at but they whacked him with a much larger 'administration fee' in addition to the original £2.

Overall, my advice would be to tell him that either he tries to cancel his cancellation and still go or to pay up and put it down to experience. If this was a standard package, he'd be getting off lightly with only having to pay 65% - cancelling at this stage would leave him liable for the full amount under some TOs T&Cs.

SM

Well written,Sma,

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said,I only hope that the poster does not take offence but can see you reasoning.I have been reading this post but couldn't find the words to express my thoughts.You have covered them all.T.

A very well presented and reasoned case by Sma. I would concur with that advice.

Sma and others,i take on board what you say and whilst at first reading i thought what a high and mighty attitude, with hindsight i have to agree to most of your points and indeed we have enforced our feelings to my son regarding his moral obligations etc.In my original post i did say i had skimmed over the basic details and not included all the details or issues involved and therefore your judgment of him may be slightly misguided.There are issues if i had the time and inclination i could add that may change your views,one for instance being the fact that the students where lead to believe they would be put up in a reasonable standard hotel with two to a room when in fact the college have booked a hostel with 8 bed dorms and shared bathroom that pretty much resembles Guantanamo Bay.My son was willing to pay what he thought was fair recompence for his cancellation,i.e. lose his deposit,and possibly a further reasonable payment,but not the full amount as was been requested.Indeed the issue regarding the accomodation was the catalyst for his cancellation and if all had been as portrayed he would not have considered cancelling,he is extremely upset he has had to consider cancelling because he was so much looking forward to going.

Hi Woodlands

I think you could well be correct in saying that we may have misjudged your son,if he was led to believe that accommodation would be much better than what was actually booked I can understand his reluctance to take part in this trip.I think the college should have told the students precisely what they would be paying for.

My son went on a school trip to Villareal football training ground last year,it cost us £495 for 4 nights, which we thought was very expensive ,but were given the hotel name and website so that we could see for ourselves the high standard of the rooms etc.Most were double rooms ,a few were trebles,all with en-suite,I would have been more than happy to stay there too!!!

Sorry,T.

Thanks Oscarben , to be fair my boy is a good lad , respectful,courteous,polite and a good student,thats why i was slightly miffed at Sma's veiled implication that he may be a "Pain in the neck".He feels mislead and if he is to apply morals to his dealings with other people/institutions then the least he can expect is that they deal with him in the same way.Hopefully things are getting sorted out ,as the college lecturer organising the trip has asked him to hold off cancelling as they are considering changing accomodation for the trip.

Hi

I think you may find other peoples' opinions change too,perhaps nobody would have been quite as harsh if they had been in possession of the full facts,sometimes people want sympathy for problems of their own making and are upset when it is not given.It seems to me that your son has every right to be displeased.T.

I think this thread highlights that we should expect schools and colleges who arrange these trips, to be more transparent and clear. Often the original arrangements and cost change or aren't as expected in the first letters we receive from the schools and colleges, who make the arrangements.

If you were told it would be a standard of hotel and that has now changed to a youth hostel, I would be cross too. This would not be allowed to happen if it were a package holiday to Corfu for example. You should expect the same level of accommodation to be that of the one you were told you were booking.

Slightly off topic, my child was on a school trip and we were told their board would be at least 3 star half board. I rang the school to check out who was the travel provider (as it was a coach tour) I was almost laughed at for questioning their arrangements, but found out it was an abta agent, so I felt better. Then after paying the final amount we were told it was a Campanile Hotel in France (I don't think they are even star rated). My concern was that the style of hotel is used frequently on short stays and for people wanting to get from A to B. Not really a holiday hotel as such, with longer stay guest. Made me feel uneasy. My child was 11 at the time, first trip away etc.

To sum it up I really think schools and colleges should involve parents/carers/guardians more when arranging trips and provide all the information clearly so you know exactly what you are getting and who your contract is with. Also provide reminders about payments and cancellation costs.

woodlands wrote:

i was slightly miffed at Sma's veiled implication that he may be a "Pain in the neck".

I did not read SMa's reply as an implication of your son being a "pain in the neck". I read it as if she was referring to a former student as being a "pain in the neck" who got his comeuppance, but certainly not your son.

SMa has extensive experience of dealing with many students, whereas parents only have experience of dealing with their own student son or daughter.

luci

Perhaps we were just lucky that our son's school furnished us with all the information necessary to make a commitment to pay the holiday costs.We were even told that the training club would provide unlimited bottled water for each child during their time at the club.T.

Campanile Hotel in France (I don't think they are even star rated).

Campanile Hotels are rated as 2 Star in France. They are simple and basic but are well placed for overnight stops and short breaks. I have stayed in many of them with no complaints. Their food is generous and French rather than 'international' and their buffets provide a varied and filling meal at lunchtime.

I hope that this reassures Alicesadventures and clarifies the situation concerning Campanile Hotels.