Can someone please advise where I can go from here. In January I enquired about a holiday to China for my husband, two children and myself. I advised what budget I had but also requested a family room as I did not want my children (8 & 6) in a different room. Tour agent checked this and guaranteed a family room, I also asked about Visas were they required and she said no. I asked about injections are they needed as I was not willing to put my kids through that just for a holiday I would go to another destination and she assured us none were required so I went ahead and paid a deposit. A couple of days later it was all over the news about smog issues in china and these would affect breathing etc so off I went to enqiure about this and was told everything would be okay as October was not bad. I have made several trips and calls to the office to pay money and be reassured about health issues but was told everytime I was worrying for nothing.
All I have received from the travel agent is a summary booking which i know the return date is wrong and still have not had this clarified after several calls and visits I have had no confirmation booking no terms and conditions nothing.
There was an article the other day from CNN saying beware taking children to china with regards to SARS, Enterovirus 71 and a foot and mouth outbreak. I also found out I need visas as well at a cost of £30 each but that does not bother us what does is we need
Hep A (2 injections 6 months apart) Tentuas, polio, Measles, mumps & rebella as there is an outbreak there and have been over 250 thousands cases reported since 2007.
So again I went to the travel agent and asked could i change this to another destination and she said No. I asked if I could change my ticket to my husbands brothers name and I would loose the kids flights price and she said No. basically they are unwilling to help. They said it was down to the flight operator who would not refund our money so I contacted them direct. Emirates said there is two booking ways a public way and a net fare which first choice used and Emeriates said as the tickets had not been used there would be no problem cancelling them and getting a full refund. I have not contacted the hotel yet. Emirates said the net fare policy has nothing under cancellations or refunds on the terms and conditions so it is up to First Choice.
I have written to First Choice and advised them I have contacted ABTA who were most unhelpful, Atol, Travel Watch, Consumer Advice and I want a full refund now as I have tried to be come to some agreement as I was willing to loose part of my holiday or change it to someone elses name. I have said if i do not get a full refund I would be taking a small claim on the basis of
"Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994). Which applies standards that must be met in all consumer relationships involving the provision of goods and services. Unlike many legal tomes, this act is couched in simple terms and is likely to be understood by all. With regard to holidays this act requires that the Agent/Tour Operator making the booking must do so using appropriate care and skill, taking into account any terms and conditions you may specify such as: times of travel, type of hotel, facilities for children".
Do you think I have a chance of getting my money back they said they would get back to me in 28 days which is cutting it a bit fine.
Any help would be appreciated.
thanks
sandra
I also found out I need visas as well at a cost of £30 each but that does not bother us what does is we need
Hep A (2 injections 6 months apart) Tentuas, polio, Measles, mumps & rebella as there is an outbreak there and have been over 250 thousands cases reported since 2007.
You might be interested to know that US visitors to the UK are recommended to have an almost identical list of vaccinations before travelling here. ( See http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/destinationUnitedKingdom.aspx ) So ask yourself, do you think that you are putting your kids lives at risk by making them live here? I would assume not. Tetanus, Polio, Measles, Mumps and Rubella are all diseases that would be very common here (and once were) were it not for the mass childhood vaccination programmes that are already in existence in this country. Even if your kids never set foot out of the UK medical advice in the UK is in almost universal agreement that they should still be vaccinated agains all these diseases and generally adds Diptheria into the list too. Bear in mind too that an outbreak of 250,000 cases within a total population of more than 1 billion people (1,000,000,000) equates with 1 case per 4,000 head of population. Yes, this is a higher rate of infection than you'll find in the UK but what keeps our infection rates down is the routine vaccination of kids in infancy. Assuming that you haven't consciously refused to have your kids vaccinated then at most all you need do is check whether they might now need the recommended boosters.
Hep A vaccinations are not routinely given in the UK but that doesn't mean that it's not possible to catch it here - there was an epidemic of 300 cases in Liverpool in 1990 and a more recent outbreak in 2006 when schoolchildren were vaccinated. Hep A vaccination is routinely recommended for travel to countries where high standards of personal hygiene are likely to be compromised. Travellers to the UK from the US are not advised to be vaccinated against Hep A but they are routinely advised to ensure that they have been vaccinated against Hep B which is much more prevalent here. But have you had your kids vaccinated against it? Probably not. In other words these things are all relative and your TA is probably wondering why you want to cancel a holiday on the grounds that you are being recommended to vaccinate your kids against diseases that for the most part they have already been vaccinated against and which they could catch at home.
The air quality issue is a slightly different one and I would be cautious about taking a child who had asthma to some of the big industrial cities in China. But this has been in the news ever since it was announced that the Olympics would be held in Beijing this year. In other words this is not a new, previously unknown risk and I suspect that the line any TO is likely to take is that if it's safe enough for athletes to go and compete there, it's safe enough for tourists to go and watch them. Unless you have medical certification saying that your GP has advised you not to travel because of the risk to an asthmatic member of the family then I don't think you stand much chance of pursuing a claim for a full refund, at least not under the Sale of Goods Act. I doubt that 'Clean Air' is a 'facility' that a TA can be held responsible for, especially since you did not raise this prior to booking.
SM
PS Mods, the OP might get a wider response if this is moved to the 'Complaints' forum?
Thank you for your reply. Before I had my kids we did a lot of travelling and when we booked at the travel agents we were always advised about health, injections, food and visas etc.
We have taken then kids to Germany, France, Los Angels and Las Vegas but would not take them anywhere they would require injections until they were a lot older and I advised the travel agent this. I was only booking the holiday if there were no injections required.
I have had the Hep A, Hep B tentuas, Polio, yellow fever etc etc but would not give these to a minor. I am also against the MMR injection plus my boys are allergic to something in the injection so they never got it and I am not giving them it for the sake of a holiday no matter where in the world it is. China is always a place I wanted to see but it will have to wait for many years now.
I did ask the travel agent to swap the holiday for some were else or transfer the tickets so was willing to come and go as I set out the conditions of booking the holiday before I went ahead. Plus we have never had any confirmation of booking etc so how do I know they have organised it right and have they paid the flights and hotel?
thanks
sandra
We have taken then kids to Germany, France, Los Angels and Las Vegas but would not take them anywhere they would require injections until they were a lot older and I advised the travel agent this. I was only booking the holiday if there were no injections required.
I have had the Hep A, Hep B tentuas, Polio, yellow fever etc etc but would not give these to a minor. I am also against the MMR injection plus my boys are allergic to something in the injection so they never got it and I am not giving them it for the sake of a holiday no matter where in the world it is. China is always a place I wanted to see but it will have to wait for many years now.
I did ask the travel agent to swap the holiday for some were else or transfer the tickets so was willing to come and go as I set out the conditions of booking the holiday before I went ahead. Plus we have never had any confirmation of booking etc so how do I know they have organised it right and have they paid the flights and hotel?
thanks
sandra
SMa wrote:
PS Mods, the OP might get a wider response if this is moved to the 'Complaints' forum?
There's already a copy there.
luci
It's getting confusing having two threads running in different forums based on identical posts - perhaps the Mods can amalgamate them? But I'll reply here for the moment!
I respect your decision to not immunise your children but it's not the decision I would have taken nor is it the one that the great majoirty of parents take. In those circumstances, unless you explicit with the TA that your children had not received any of the standard ones, I think it probably was reasonable of them to assume that they were up to date with the standard advice. Especially since, with the exception of Hep A, you have already taken them to countries where the same vaccinations are also recommended. Yes, reported cases of Polio are at an all time low in the US, as they are here, but this is because of the overall success of the immunisation programmes in both countries. The disease itself hasn't been eradicated as the following news report makes clear.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/08/news/polio.php
I'm not an epidemiologist but I am trained in statistical analysis and it looks to me that in these circumstances, the risk of children not catching a disease is dependent not on the rate of infection in a country but on the rate of immunisation. And regardless of where you take them, what will protect them will be the willingness of other parents to vaccinate their kids against the diseases that you have decided to not vaccinate yours against. For the sake of your kids I do hope that few parents go down the same route as you - we are already seeing an increase in reported cases of Measles, Mumps and Rubella because immunisation rates are dropping and we are starting to lose our 'herd' immunity. I am old enough to remember what a devestating disease Polio can be for kids - I would never ever want to see it return as a result of immunisation rates droppping.
In the light of your views on immunisation I am, therefore, really surprised that you even considered China as a destination for a family holiday. China is industrialising really rapidly but for the majority of the population, housing and public health standards are still more like they were here in the first half of the 20th century, when these diseases were also still rife here. I don't think that we can ever expect to hand over responsibilty for our children's health to a TA. I would have expected you to have done some research yourself first.
Good luck with your claim but I personally am not hopeful on your behalf.
SM
SM
I respect your decision to not immunise your children but it's not the decision I would have taken nor is it the one that the great majoirty of parents take. In those circumstances, unless you explicit with the TA that your children had not received any of the standard ones, I think it probably was reasonable of them to assume that they were up to date with the standard advice. Especially since, with the exception of Hep A, you have already taken them to countries where the same vaccinations are also recommended. Yes, reported cases of Polio are at an all time low in the US, as they are here, but this is because of the overall success of the immunisation programmes in both countries. The disease itself hasn't been eradicated as the following news report makes clear.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/08/news/polio.php
I'm not an epidemiologist but I am trained in statistical analysis and it looks to me that in these circumstances, the risk of children not catching a disease is dependent not on the rate of infection in a country but on the rate of immunisation. And regardless of where you take them, what will protect them will be the willingness of other parents to vaccinate their kids against the diseases that you have decided to not vaccinate yours against. For the sake of your kids I do hope that few parents go down the same route as you - we are already seeing an increase in reported cases of Measles, Mumps and Rubella because immunisation rates are dropping and we are starting to lose our 'herd' immunity. I am old enough to remember what a devestating disease Polio can be for kids - I would never ever want to see it return as a result of immunisation rates droppping.
In the light of your views on immunisation I am, therefore, really surprised that you even considered China as a destination for a family holiday. China is industrialising really rapidly but for the majority of the population, housing and public health standards are still more like they were here in the first half of the 20th century, when these diseases were also still rife here. I don't think that we can ever expect to hand over responsibilty for our children's health to a TA. I would have expected you to have done some research yourself first.
Good luck with your claim but I personally am not hopeful on your behalf.
SM
SM
Thank you for your reply. My children have had all their injections apart from the MMR. there were two reasons they never got it, one because of the the hype about autism and they are allergic to something in it. Yes in hindsight I should have done my own homework first but just took the TA word for it that they did not require any injections but I did tell her they had not had all their injections and if they needed anything at all including tablets them I was not willing to take them and would have used the same budget to go elsewhere so she would not have been loosing out on any commission. Every other travel agent i have used issued a leaflet on the country with visa and health recommendations and I have never had a problem in the past.
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