I had the same problem with a different company last year.. i booked a package with early morning flights, they changed it twice [both airline and time] after giving them a severe dose of the verbals [had to get up to the Md's secretary] they changed me back on to my early flight i made it clear the only reason they got my business was flight times as i could have got the holiday cheaper with another agent if i had wanted late flights

wizard

Sorry Lindam, but they can actually make the change. It normally says in booking conditions that flight timings are an estimate an dcan be subject to change.

As the change is within the 12 hours, it isnt classed as significant and therefore no compensation is due.

You could ask them if you could cancel and get a refund, but I dont think they are obligated to do this either.

Sory

Kath HT Admin

hi the trouble is the flight was there last year
but when we look on the airports summer scheduale it has gone
so this is the earliest flight but dont want it its to late
we have booked flights and appartments separate so how do i solve this one
even if i got my money back there are no carriers that have early flights
thats why we booked our holiday round the flight
thanks for the reply

Can you speak to the people you have booked the apartments from ?

Can you fly from another airport ?

Unfortunately, they may have tried to get that slot and not been able to. Brochures are produced months in advance and thats why the flight times can change and they put the clause in the small print to cover themselves.

Kth x

but isnt that wrong they are taking money off me for something thet dont have
so how can they sell something they dont have

Im not sure how it works Lindam, but flights can be changed for numerous reasons. When it was sold to you they may have been operational at that time.

Have you asked them why it has been changed ?

Did you book direct with XL, and if so what do their terms and conditions say ?

kath x

Well they kind of do have it but at a different time of day. Unfortuantely flight booking times are often an estimate rather than exact and as long as they get you in the air within 12 hours of the original time they seem to be fulfilling their contract They will have covered it in their terms and conditions.

You could try speaking to them again, to see if they have something more suitable to offer or ask if they will let you cancel and rebook with someone else.

Have you checked somewhere like http://www.travelsupermarket.com who check lots of carriers to see if there is a more suitable flight out there for you?

Doe

This is the pit falls of booking it diy, you don't have any cover.
Though i read somewhere you can get insurance to cover for this situation

Hi Lindam, sorry to hear of your changes. It is frustrating when this happens.

If your flight to Rhodes has now been changed to 3.15 in the afternoon, you should get to Rhodes around 9.15 at night, not after midnight. Though I would not be happy either having a change as you do book your holiday around decent flight times when poss.

Give your operators a call again and once again tell them that this time will not suit and is there any other options they can give you.

We have also booked seperately flight and apt to greece for June and already our tour operators have merged on the flights, and we are going from Bristol to Skiathos, but if you look at the websites they have now stopped showing any flights whatsoever flying out from Bristol to Skaithos, sofingers crossed we dont' get a letter saying its been changed to another airport!!!

Unfortunately, flight timings very rarely seem to stay the same from when you book them.

We also had our flight altered from a 8.05am flight to 12.20 , we were originally booked on a XL flight at the moment we dont know who we will be travelling with was told it could be MYtravel .

but isnt that wrong they are taking money off me for something thet dont have
so how can they sell something they dont have

Well maybe it's wrong that they should allow you to book so early in the first place? Perhaps a maximum of 3 months ahead should be standard?

There's no easy answer to this one - if you book well ahead then there is always the risk of changes, usually outside the control of the operator. The upside is that you hopefully get a cheaper price and at least roughly the dates/times you want.

The fair answer to the problem of taking bookings early would be to disclose what state the company's planning process is at when they offer to sell. They could advertise flights in advance with notes like "at early planning stage" / "waiting for air traffic control slot approval" / "all contracts and approvals in place" so that you knew where you stood. And to save space on screen and make it easier they could replace the notes with a traffic light system. So a £20 flight with a red marker would stand out as possibly not as good a bargain as a £50 with yellow or or a £75 green.

My MEP is looking into the way airlines mess people about and I've suggested this idea to him.

There's no need for anything this complicated - just the recognition on the part of the customer that when TOs say that flight times might be subject to change that they really do mean this. Having your flights times changed is a standard risk when you book very early - if you don't want to run the risk or reduce the chances, then book later. It's one reason why I would never book very early, whether DIY or on TO package becasue I like to try and make certain that the flights won't be changed. Of course it means that I often pay more than those who book as soon ad the flights are offered for sale.

But that's the choice we all have to make - book early to get a good price but run the risk of the times being changed or book later and run the risk of a higher price. But wanting both is unrealistic, if there's one thing we should all now know about the travel industry, it's that you really can't have your cake and eat it. When an operator tells you that 'flights might be subject to change' they are already telling you in shorthand that all the things that steve8482 lists could apply to your booking.

SM

I cannot see the reason why people feel the need to complain, when things change having booked so far in front.

Are their own lives so well organised that they can say with certainty that they will be able to be in a certain place at a particular time so far in front?

The holidaymaker demands that TOs publish holidays and timetables earlier and earlier.

When the TOs do so, they always say that it is subject to change.

But it seems that line should only apply to others.

fwh

I think many of us Regs on HT have been holidaying for many years and if we book a holiday/flight 12 month in advance are know our flights are subject to change.

People who come on to this complaints thread may well be booking their first package holiday or having their first stab at a DIY holiday.

They look to us regulars to explain what has happened.

I fell that if we are unsympathic and abrupt in our replys, it's unlikely they in turn will become regulars and add to the forum to make it flourish, or even bother to come back and write a review.

This was only lindham29's third post and probably their last.

Doe

SMa

Booking early isn't just about getting a good price, you have to do it to (hopefully!) get the holiday you want!! Years ago I wouldn't have dreamt of booking my summer hols until Jan at the earliest but now I have no choice because the TO's choose to put them on sale so early. I booked my holiday in August and have booked the holiday I want, the accomodation I've chosen is not available should I wish to book now. In my opinion the holidays shouldn't go on sale until the TO's have the flight and accomodation confirmed for that season, but I suppose if they did that then they wouldn't be able to sit on all our deposit money for so long.

i always book my flights as soon as they appear and keep an open mind on the times,but I don,t book my accommodation until my flights are verified as although the flights shoot up in price closer the time the accommodation tends to stay the same.
my lesson learnt was with X.L when I had booked a friday flight and they moved me to a saturday flight I then had the hassle and expense of changing my hotel booking.
jeanie

SMa

What's complicated about airlines and tour operators being honest? Hang about, you may have a point there....

I mean, what other business could take money off you for something it knows it might not be able to supply (or isn't even sure whether it wants to supply) without giving you any clue to this whilst hiding behind T&Cs that say that when they finally get organised they can scrap the whole plan with no liablity to you other than a refund but if you don't like what they eventually come up with you can't have your money back?

When the average customer sees the phrase "flight times may change" they tend to assume it means because of bad weather, French ATC strikes, security alerts etc.. .

They don't expect it to mean because the airline hasn't checked with ATC whether the slot is even vaguely possible, or because they haven't got round to deciding how many crew to employ/ planes to lease this season and they certainly don't expect it to be because the airline hasn't checked whether the airport will actually be open at the departure time they've advertised (which is what MYT did to me and several thousand others last summer, I'm probably the only one who got a refund).

If you don't like my trafiic light idea, how about some simple statistics. All airlines to publish how many tickets they've sold in the last 12 months - together with the percentage that were later retimed by more than 1 hour/ 8 hours. That could be compiled and published on their sites each month by automatic software.

I love the idea in your last paragraph Steve. That would make for some very interesting reading.

Also I think 'Flight times may change' should be written in huge letters at the top of every page at the back of brochures detailing flights. Not hidden away in the 12 pages of small print that follow .