Pilot and cabin crew? I wonder what all that was about.

No milk in his coffee? Sounds serious whatever it was and better to happen on the ground than at 33,000ft!

Darren

Here's another Flight Rage story. The Knee Defender allows one to protect oneself from inconsiderate passengers in front doing full recline onto one's lap.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10881437/Legroom-wars-the-device-that-stops-plane-seats-reclining.html

However - here's what happened when passengers disagreed about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/28942485

Personally I reckon that the approach of some enlightened airlines in completely removing the capability of recline from ALL of their seating (eg Jet2 or RyanAir) is a great idea.
One then can get the legroom space one has paid for
- without it being stolen by the person sitting in front of you reclining onto you.

I used a home made knee defender for years and no one noticed.
I am 5ft 10 ins and dont like the people in front spending the flight resting on my poorly knees.

There are a few advantages of being only 5ft 3ins, though one disadvantage is not being able to be seen in a crowd.

Do any members feel they need to recline there seat on short haul flights and if so why?

shrimper,

I rarely recline on a 12 hour flight let alone 2 or 3 hours. I agree with ukbill, no recline is a good idea on short haul in my opinion where seat pitch is tight.

Darren

How does one define 'need'? I certainly prefer to recline my seat even on shorthaul flights because it means there is less pressure on the developing arthritis in my hips and to a lesser extent in my knees. The less acute angles at knee and hip definitely help because even 2/3 hrs sat in a very up right position with little opportunity to get up and walk around, make travelling very uncomfortable. My Mum is in an even worse situation because her arthritis is even more advanced. She is now reluctant to fly at all because of the attitude of so many people whenever she tries to recline her seat and just finds it unbearable to have to sit bolt upright even on shorthaul flights.

Some people might think that we should, therefore, pay the extra for an extra legroom seat but in planes where there isn't a dedicated section with extra legroom seats ie a premium cabin, the extra legroom seats and/or medical seats by the doors don't guarantee you recline room behind and she isn't allowed to sit by the emergency exits because of the disability anyway. If the people huffing and puffing behind us need us to stay in an upright position for the duration of the journey and not just during any food or drink service because they aren't willing to pay for an extra legroom seat then it might seem harsh but I see no reason why we should have to sacrifice our comfort for theirs. An extra legroom seat will give them room for their knees, whereas paying for an extra legroom seat doesn't give us guaranteed room for reclining but in instances where we have paid more for our seats than someone behind us then I really don't see why someone sitting behind me thinks they have more right to sit comfortably than I do.

SM

An interesting take on the issue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/upshot/dont-want-me-to-recline-my-airline-seat-you-can-pay-me.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=

Would people be willing to pay extra for the guarantee that the seat in front of them would't/couldn't be reclined?

SM

I suppose people have the right to recline ther seats but if you are sitting in front of me you will be resting on my arthritic knees causing me pain for the duration of the flight.Is that OK
I have had a bad back for more than 40 years but wouldnt dream of relining my seat if it affects the person behind me.
Thats why I use my home made knee defender.

If a seat has the facility to recline I have no problem using it. I have knee replacements and get stiff when knees are in the same position for long periods.

If a seat has the facility to recline I have no problem using it. I have knee replacements and get stiff when knees are in the same position for long periods.

I personally find it VERY inconsiderate if an individual reclines the seat on a short haul, there really is no need. I am sorry Feebee however I don't see that excuse as being valid, it makes NO difference to your knee position if the seat is reclined or not. The seat back pivots while the base remains in a fixed position and doesn't move, reclining a seat does not in any way alter the position of your knees or allow any further movement or flexability, so there is no difference in either a fully upright or reclined position you have the exact same range of movement with the seat fully up.

I am all for airlines removing the reclining seats on their short haul flights similar to Ryanair and other budget airlines.

Jay Trip wrote:

I suppose people have the right to recline ther seats but if you are sitting in front of me you will be resting on my arthritic knees causing me pain for the duration of the <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">flight.Is</span> that OK
I have had a bad back for more than 40 years but wouldnt dream of relining my seat if it affects the person behind me.
Thats why I use my home made knee defender. :tup

The difference Jaytrip is that you have chosen to save money by not booking an extra legroom seat and then object to a passenger who has paid the same as you for their seat using the facilities it provides eg the recline feature. My Mum and I on the other hand do not have the option of paying extra for a guaranteed problem free recline seat and have no way of making sure that we don't end up sat in front of someone like you. You know that you booked a seat with limited legroom and a reclining seat in front of you so I am afraid that my attitude is 'Live with it' - or pay the extra for the extra legroom. If your condition is serious enough to warrant it then I have no problem with you requesting a medical seat - you will automatically be given a seat by the main doors with no seat at all in front of you in most cases. But I do have a problem with not being willing to pay the extra and then expecting me to compensate you for that choice by not being able to recline my seat.

Or you could do what we do - don't book with the airlines that don't provide you with what you want. So we have long stopped using Ryanair and, therefore, often indirectly do pay more for flights by only booking with airlines that do have reclining seats. We will possibly give the new seats on Monarch a try-out but if they prove too uncomfortable to put up with then we won't be using them either. In fact when I think about it it is a while since either of us flew shorthaul because of the discomfort. We have taken to using the trains entirely for journeys within the UK because of the superior comfort - overall the total door-to-door journey doesn't necessarily take longer and sitting on the train is certainly more comfortable than sitting on a seat at the airport and you get the added benefit of it being much easier to get up and walk around to stretch your legs on a train. I even prefer using the train for European journeys and will do that far more often from now on. Travelling on Eurostar followed by a connection on any of the mainland Europe trains is a far more comfortable experience.

You only get what you pay for and it is time that people who object to having other passengers recline their seats woke up to the fact that what they are paying for is a very cramped seat with very limited legroom and the possibility of the person in front reclining their seat. If you don't like it then you need to be willing to pay more but as long as passengers demonstrate that low prices are their main booking priority then airlines will continue to pack their passengers in like sardines in order to keep prices as low as possible whilst keeping their profits intact.

Kiltman that might be true of knees but it isn't of hips - reclining your seat means that the angle between thigh and back is less acute and that will always be more comfortable for most people with arthritic or replacement hips. Additionally my Mum now has the added problem of a very pronounced curvature to her spine because of osteoporosis and recling her seat means that she is able to have a much better sightline rather being forced to look down at her own chest for the whole journey or else force her neck back into unnatural position, which causes pain problems all of its own, in order to look ahead. The almost universal absence of inflight entertainment from shorthaul flights is an irrelevance to us because even when it was provided she had long found it impossible to watch the drop down screens comfortably and can only comfortably watch seatback screens from a reclined position.

SM

SMa wrote:

An interesting take on the issue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/upshot/dont-want-me-to-recline-my-airline-seat-you-can-pay-me.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=

Would people be willing to pay extra for the guarantee that the seat in front of them would't/couldn't be reclined?

SM

In short yes I would, I try where possible to pay for extra legroom or Premium if travelling long haul, and when selecting my seat to sit in extra legroom for short haul where the emergency exits are, or in Premium in row 1, so no seats in front - which is what I have when travelling in a couple of months time.

Every feedback form I fill in at the end of a package holiday flight, I write take the recline off of short haul seats.

I suspect one day they will do it as it's probably cheaper, and airlines being involved in what seems like a race to the bottom it could be something they cut. I think Ryanair already have planes with no recline not that I've been on one yet.

The people that annoy me are the ones that even recline before take off and then the flight attendants have to ask them to put it back in the upright position. How selfish is that, as presumably if there is a crash which I understand is far more likely on take off or landing, the person behind would probably not be able to get in to the brace position.

Arthritis is a weird condition as I have it in various joints and find the seats to be more supportive of my joints in the upright position.

I also get stiff and can move my limbs a little more easily when the seat is upright and do a few heel lift thingys and ankle rotations to try and stop the pain setting in.

Next two flights are In Club Europe so there is a bit of extra space in front of me even if the person in front decides to recline.

A reclined seat also makes me feel so claustrophobic, but I guess that's my problem.

Although row one means you have no one in front of you, you have all the people hanging about who are waiting to go to the toilet.

SMa,I cant book a leg room seat as I have a bad back and you have to be 100% fit to sit in one of these seats.
I spend a fortune on up to 8 holidays a year so an extra £30 is neither here or there to me.
I have been using only Thomson these past couple of years and find they have decent legroom on their planes as they have the newer recarro seats.
The last time someone reclined their seat in front of me was December 2012 and she was actually lying on my knees.I kindly informed he of this and she put her seat into the upright position.
I am 5ft 10ins and totally object to anyone using my knees for their comfort!
I wonder how many people have reclining armchairs at home.
The seat reclined doesnt make that much difference to the person sitting in it but does have an effect on the passenger behind.As I stated in my previous post I have had a bad back since the 60s and would feel more comforable in a recined seat but I find it hypocritical to not want anyone in front of me to recline their seat if I did the same thing.
By the way the seats classed as medical seats in row 13 .A and F with no seats infront of them are now sold as leg room seats so I can longer use these.

Jay Trip, people who aren't fit enough to be able to open them aren't allowed to book the extra legroom seats by the emergency doors but there is no restriction on any of the other extra legroom seats on any plane I have travelled on. For example, the row 1 seats or those by the other bulkheads. I would suggest that you check this out on your next flight. My mother has certainly been allowed to sit in the extra legroom seats by the aisles at the main doors and the seats by the bulkheads.

SM

I have always been informed by Thomson that I cant sit in the leg room seats at the entrance as you have to be 100%fit.
I did notice on my last Thomson flight that there was no middle door and we all boarded from the front.
There were a few rows of seats with extra leg room in the middle of the plane.
If I knew that these were available on this plane I would have booked one of these seats but we usually travel on a 757 and the only leg room seats are at the entrance.

When I sit by the Emergency exits the Thomson staff come and check with all that sit in those seats to ensure we are fit, and take us through briefly the emergency routine