but nothing has been returned in the shape of improving a non existant infrastructure

That's what really confuses me, they (govn) really don't support tourism in a professional manner considering the massive revenue that is made.

I wouldn't have gone back 7 times if I didn't like the place and people. It does annoy me intensely the amount of high-end expansion (for the rouble and big rupee flyers) that is happening when the basics are still not catered for.

Do 'they' really care if long-term holidaymakers go back (unless they are 5 star)?

We as returning tourists are good investments looking at in plain business terms. Myself and partner probably spent all in all including various big purchases - 30K plus in the last 7 years actually in Goa. Never bought packages so the money was spent in the country.

Would you run your business down to the ground, put prices up, not provide or upgrade services and still call this development AND hope to entice people back year after year. We see this as the 'quirky' indian way and find the 'chaos' all part of the charm. Oh yeah?

The last couple of years I've met so many people who have 'invested' their free time and money in Goa for as much as 15+ years. Now moving on disillusioned and saddened by the dual standards but still love the people.

I would like to open a copy of the Navhind Times (or any other local paper) and actually read some sort of good news regarding improvements regarding tourism.

Will any of these things really happen?

• Dismantling River Princess
  Demolition of all the illegally built hotels within the approved distances from the beach.
  Impose speed limits on the Baga Candolim Rd (traffic on the increase with 4x4 Mumbai mob)
  Sanitation
  Illegal dumping of sewage in Baga River/ Nerul
  Erosion issues
  Preservation of wildlife (Building at Arpora Baga hill, Morjim ... massive 5 star complex planned for this Xmas opening)
  Regulated Taxis
  A decision on the airport
  ... and much more, I haven't mentioned the problems in The South.

NONE of the above issues have been addressed in the last 8 years since I've been going there.

Why do I go back... I may not go back if what I see/read improves to any degree.

I am only expressing my opinion AND a lot of opinions passed on to me by professional Goan people who care and also fellow travellers. I write these comments as I DO care and would hate to go back in 5 years and see the place TRASHED completely.

but nothing has been returned in the shape of improving a non existant infrastructure.

What do you expect to be done, after all this is India we are talking about, one of the most corrupt systems in the world, as no doubt most of us have experienced on our travels there

I dont think the answer is to say its a magical place I'll keep going there no matter what

So as a tourist, what is the answer Do you honestly think as a tourist you can make any difference Even if you decide to stay away from Goa in protest of nothing being done by the powers that be I'm sure there will be other people who will take your place.

Moaning about it won't change it, we have no vote, we have the pleasure of visiting for a few short weeks - maybe if I lived there I would feel differently.I don't understand why people can't just enjoy Goa for how it is. Thailand might have fantastic hotels, but I do like to feel comfortable sitting out in the evening, certainly didn't feel comfortable there with people plying their trade all around me.

As Neil is so happy to recount his many bad experiences of Goa, sickness, building work etc.etc. I can only speak well of it. True things have changed, but the essence of Goa hasn't. I have never been ill, the food is fantastic, the loos have come on in leaps and bounds
Goa is Goa , when I stop loving it I will stop going there I won't be harping on about how it should change to suit me

Sorry but I thought this was a 'discussion' group. Make some valid comments and gets interpreted as 'moaning'.

A lot of the points made are actually 'moaning' from the many Goan people I have talked to. Maybe you should 'discuss' these with some of the Goans when you are sitting in a shack having a beer and hear what they have to say about it.

Please folks keep it light and friendly
Kath HT Admin

Moaning about it won't change it, we have no vote, we have the pleasure of visiting for a few short weeks - maybe if I lived there I would feel differently.I don't understand why people can't just enjoy Goa for how it is.

I agree roxey and i for one do enjoy Goa for how it is, very much.

A lot of the points made are actually 'moaning' from the many Goan people I have talked to. Maybe you should 'discuss' these with some of the Goans when you are sitting in a shack having a beer and hear what they have to say about it.

They are all valid comments Big Neil but when i go on holiday its to relax, have fun, enjoy being there etc. I dont want to sit discussing the politics and problems of the country i'm staying, to me that is not a holiday.

Thailand is a large country which my wife and I visit regularly,and to image that it is all devoted to the sex industry is clearly wrong. Some areas of Bangkok. Pattaya and one particular street in Puckett are, but outwith those areas we have spent some magical holidays free of any seedyness Thailands tourism is much greater than Goas and is certainly not based solely on single men looking for sex. I'm sure anyone who has travellwd round Thailand would agree with this One year round about the late 90s whilst we were in Goa the police raided and shut down a shack just to the back of the beach just on the Baga side of the Calangute steps which was being used for prostitution,this was widely reported in the local press, so to image Goa is free of this sort of thing is clearly wrong Alan

Gramps, Big Neil and all others the facts are that we can do nothing to make the Indian Govt invest the tourists money back into Goa as it should do in sanitation, airports helping the locals with their water supply etc etc, they will only do so if they feel they will get something back for the investment.
So the logical thing would be to say right everyone dont go to Goa until something is done to improve the situatione. This will leave Goa wide open to the Russian and other tourists who dont seem to give a damn as long as they are catered for.
I for one am not prepared to abandon a country that I have grown to love both the place and its people more than my own. It is a magical place and I feel safer and happier there than in the UK and this isn't simply because of 'holiday fever' I have stayed for a couple of months and would love to stay longer but until I retire this isn't possible . I can go out and about at any time and not feel threatened although I obviously use common sense and don't take any unecessary risks. You smile at people in the UK and they think you are up to something! unlike the free smiles in Goa!!
I can't begin to assume I have any answers. If anyone can come up with some practical things we as tourists can do please let us know. As I said before nowhere can compare to Goa warts and all.

I'm not saying anymore on this subject... it's all said here...

Problems in paradise: a plea to save Goa

http://www.hindu.com/2007/01/11/stories/2007011104181100.htm

Sorry, I forgot to add, in that article refering to building land figures - 1 hectare = 10,000 m2.

When you see the figures allocated to development you get an idea of the scale of things.

Depressing reading indeed!

I won't be harping on about how it should change to suit me

Roxey, your right, why should it change to please the tourist I like everything just the way it is.

A lot of the points made are actually 'moaning' from the many Goan people I have talked to.

I have many Goan friends, and not once have I heard them "moan" about things in Goa. They are all very proud of their state, which is more than can be said for where I live.

Roxey, your right, why should it change to please the touristhttp://

OK did you read that article in 'The Hindu'? Do these people seem happy about the 'changes' that are being made for tourists. These are not changes... decimation is the word.

At the end of the day Goa has to make some changes to have a tourist market. If it didn't there would be no tourist industry, which I believe accounts for a vast some of money. It's a pity it's not put back into improving things, ie water supplies etc but until Goa and India in general becomes "clean" in it's running of the country by the government it's hard too see this happening

By the way Neil:-

I'm not saying anymore on this subject

I await your reply

Well lets face it the Baga / Candolim 'Strip' is doomed. Fine if the majority love it, look what happened to the Costa Del Sol!

With the amount of building planned for the next 5 years it will 'crash' the place. I feel sorry for the locals.

I'll not be posting any more of my 'moaning' discussions here as it is obviously the wrong place and no one really gives a toss anyway. Hopefully one or two of you can sympathise with my grievances about Goa.

Resigning from group if I can find a way to cancel.

Well lets face it the Baga / Candolim 'Strip' is doomed. Fine if the majority love it, look what happened to the Costa Del Sol!

It all seems to be taken place in the North, yes it can't good for the locals. The South seems to have avoided it, so far

Anyone found a lost Teddy?

Anyone found a lost Teddy?

Not yet JG

I'm sorry if Big Neil is giving up on this discussion as he talks a lot of sense, the article in TheHindu he brought to our attention, paints a very different picture to what Goan Mad Tony's friends are telling him. I suspect that perhaps a lot of them may well be out of state beach workers, or others in the tourist industry, for who Goa is light year away from the states they come from, pay no taxes, and send all their money out of state. Certainly the Goan born friends that I've known since the start of the tourist boom in the late eighties are very far from happy with whats happening to their state and despair at how the tourists seem oblivious to the destruction going on all around them. I not sure what the solution is but just ignoring it, and kidding on everything is fine, wont help at all Alan

paints a very different picture to what Goan Mad Tony's friends are telling him. I suspect that perhaps a lot of them may well be out of state beach workers

WRONG These are friends born and bred in Goa and not out of state workers As for the article your refering to that is refering to the North, I think your find that the South has so far escaped this sort of thing.

I not sure what the solution is

We can all have our views and suggestions on trying to find a solution but our points of view/suggestions will have no bearing on the one thing that can find a solution and that's the government. They would rather line their pockets then reinvest in making it a better place for all.