We can get back to the notion that travel agents (including OTBeach) can include the fact that there is no 7 day cooling-off period in the terms and conditions.

But OTB's Terms of Business do make this clear as far as I an concerned. The section on on-line bookings spells out in soem detail that when making an on-line booking with them you are entering a legally binding contract and that any cancellations will incur charges in line with their T&Cs and/or those of the Principal that they make the booking with on your behalf. OK, they don't specifically say that there is no 7 day cooling off period but I think that they do make it clear that once you've booked, you've booked and that any cancellations will incur costs.

'Cooling-off periods' were introduced to protect consumers in situations where they might feel under pressure to make a rapid decision and in particular with regard to financial products or when cold-called by eg double glazing companies with so called unrepeatable offers but this doesn't apply to on-line purchases. There's no pushy, aggressive salesperson waving a contract under our noses and refusing to leave our home until they've done everything possible to try and get us to sign. We can just switch the computer off!

Unless a website states that there is '7 day cooling of period' then I think it's unreasonable for a customer of any business to assume that there is one. After all, does anybody book an Easyjet or Ryanair flight direct and think that they have 7 days in which to make their mind up as to whether they really want it or not? They don't specifically say that there is no 'cooling-off' period either but just like OTB they do make it clear that once you've given your card details and pressed the 'book now' button that's it you're committed and can't cancel without charge.

Let's be clear - lots of on-line retailers do let us change our minds and do the equivalent of taking the goods back to the shop but neither they nor any high street shop are obliged to let us do this for the majority of retail purchases. They are only obliged by law to do so if the goods are faulty or not fit for purpose - and the onus tends to be on us, the consumer to prove this. Deciding you no longer want the product is, on its own, not sufficient grounds for us to insist that they give us our money back.

SM

Actually a similar question about cooling off periods for holidays was discussed here on HT a few years back. Various viewpoints were expressed but what did come out of it was the chaos such a policy would engender and how much the cost of holidays would rise. Indeed the view was expressed that the ordinary person would no longer be able to afford it.

The demise of the high street travel agent can be considered as one of the problems we have now. We used to go in having collected the brochures and discuss the holiday and book it. We asked questions and got answers. It was not an impulse buy as is so often the case today. Now so many people go on the web and simply type in a date and destination to be confronted with a list of available holidays. So easy yet also fraught with danger. In the excitement people do not take the care they should - T&Cs which we never really thought about in years gone by are now of paramount importance yet, as I have said before people do not read them and are aggrieved when things are not as they assumed. Strange as it may seem to some the T&Cs are not just to protect the TOs - they do protect you the customer if you read them. Whilst there are cheap deals available the cost of most holidays deserve far more consideration than is given.

A regular complaint here on HT has been on the low deposit schemes available. Yes people do change their minds but the fact that you cannot just cancel and lose a few pounds comes as a shock to some when they have to pay and lose the balance of the deposit. Again it is clear in the T&Cs but people fail to read that part and then complain. If people would just take the time then there would be less complaints, less disappointment and probably more memorable holidays.

fwh

Hello all, may I say far more amiable than the initial replies. Well done to you all! You have an interesting perspective SMa, but I would say somewhat partisan. One might almost say the opinion of a salesperson. You even cite in your defence those stalwarts of outstanding moral standards Ryanair and Easyjet. They have had a running, open battle recently about the lies they were telling about each other. I think we should learn no lessons from those businesses. Alsacienne, you evidently missed the point I was making, and that is the requirement to notify the customer of an absence of a 7 day cooling-off period in the terms and conditions of companies who are regarded as exceptions; in this case, Travel Agents (and OTB in particular). These exceptions are eloquently described above by Aliceadventures. So it would appear that my job for at least a few is not done. Still, don't worry; I'm here for the long haul. By the way, we seem to be doing very well in the charts!

I think that I am beginning to understand why the replies from others have got increasingly less amiable! Arguing that on-line retailers should be obliged by law to tell you that they don't do something that they're not required by law to do anyway, even though they do tell you that you can't change your mind once you've booked, sounds an increasingly bizarre stance to take to me.

What next? A campaign to get all service providers on the Net to list all the laws that don't apply to them, as well as the rights that you don't have but that they think that you might have assumed you are entitled to because you didn't read the terms and conditions of business that made it clear that you didn't have them before entering into a contract with them? All this will result in is another box that you'll have to tick to say that you've read the list of things that don't appply to them. Another box that some people will still tick without actually checking what they've just agreed to?

Clearly, wind-up merchants come in many forms and I think that the rest of us would be well advised to realise this. The bottom line is that once you've booked you can't change your mind and all TOs and TAs terms and conditions of business make this very clear. There really is very little more that be said about the issue.

SM

SMa
Well put! OTB Terms and Conditions are very clear on the subject of cancellations as are all the other travel agents/tour operators I've read.

Alsacienne, you evidently missed the point I was making, and that is the requirement to notify the customer of an absence of a 7 day cooling-off period in the terms and conditions of companies who are regarded as exceptions

Of course not, but there is NO requirement to notify contract signers of the absence of the cooling off period, because there isn't a cooling off period for package holidays.

So to remind you after a few posts of what was posted earlier:-

Consumers can't cancel if the contract is for:

"¢accommodation, transport, catering or leisure services
"¢package travel and timeshare arrangements

Enough.

I wish I'd kept my mouth shut and never started this thread now. Look at all the trouble it has caused.

OTB have cancellation charges simple as that what is wrong with that?

Also what does their cancellation charges have to do with them calling customer's and telling them their flight price has increased when infact it has not.

I wish I'd kept my mouth shut and never started this thread now. Look at all the trouble it has caused.

Now I'm really confused because I thought that this thread was started by erinsunc! Or are you really one and the same person but have forgotten which aliases or registered user names you are using for different threads?

SM

I cannot see any trouble. Here on HT people ask questions and receive answers. Sometimes the answer when it relates to a problem/complaint may not be the one that the OP expects or wishes to hear. During the answering facts and information is posted that adds to the knowledge base and helps answer future questions. We are for example now far more informed on what is and is not covered by the distance selling regulations thanks to this topic. When next the question is raised then we will be able to answer it easily.

Trouble? Well occasionally people not hearing the answer they want to hear do get upset and post inappropriately, but are quickly corrected by the moderators. Over time a great deal of information and expertise has been built up so when questions are asked we are often able to answer it quickly, in some cases because we have done so several times before. We are also fortunate that amongst our members are people who have or do work within the travel industry, or have specialist knowledge on some topics

Because of the way HT was set up and the manner in which it operates it is unique amongst forums because its remit is to help, inform and assist. It is not a platform for people to just vent their frustration or anger.

fwh

SMa wrote:

Now I'm really confused because I thought that this thread was started by erinsunc!

None of their ip's match they are from different areas.

Hello, sorry about the delay, real life intervened. Well there appears no need for confusion. Please turn to page 1 and see? ‘OTB - On The Beach.com. Be Very Wary Before Using!!!' (I've excluded the typo.) and ‘ON The Beach, Nightmare!!!!!' ( I think I've put in the correct number of exclamation marks). That initial statement included many shortcomings of the company including communication and repayment problems, and I merely added my own observation that Travel Agents (and OTB in particular) do not give a seven day ‘cooling-off period' and that a transparency would assist the would-be holiday buyer in being more wary about the purchase. Mind you I can also understand that from a salesperson's point of view this might make it a little tricky to close the deal if it was clear to the consumer that the purchase was closed instantly. From a company point of view that would never do. Would it?

No need for any more transparency. If people actually read the terms and conditions before accepting them, (which is what they say they have done, by either signing a form or ticking a box) this would never be an issue. No travel agent (even OTB) needs to put this in black and white, because the cooling off period is not applicable to the product they are selling. How much more do we need to 'nanny' adults in this country?

Do you know, you are probably right? It would make no difference to a travel agent like OTB or On The Beach.co.uk. Their terms and conditions are so appalling (read travelnewstoday.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/on the beach and other threads on this site) as they avoid the existing laws anyway, so why would they possibly want to make to make life difficult for themselves by being open and clear.

as they avoid the existing laws anyway,

Sorry but I cannot let that go without challenge. They do obey the law. The T&Cs are checked by lawyers. Problems arise because (1) People do not read the T&Cs or (2) People put their own interpretation on the wording. Organisations such as Plain English campaign because they are written in such a manner that people do not understand them.

Thinking about this, and other problems/complaints here on HT I suspect the above two reasons are responsible for the majority of postings in this section. We regularly answer queries that fall into those categories and people fail to take note.

This complaint started out about OTB but applies to ALL TOs and to be fair to OTB the others are just as bad when there is a problem.

Going off topic here but yesterday there was a demonstration in Bradford and as usual the whole thing became shouting of obscene comments and throwing of missiles. Such action puts everyone off and against them. Why? Well if they actually had a peaceful demo people might actually listen to the message they are preaching.

TOs and agents are just the same. They assume that being intransigent or paying compensation will solve things. Actually getting their customer service right would be cheaper and generate more business instead of ill will.

fwh

No need to apologise, but I accept anyway! Your challenge is not with me but with the site mentioned above posted on 21/ 05/ 2010. I'm sure it's not your fault that On The Beach.co.uk (OTB) or as I've recently discovered through ABTA, they are also known as ‘I book holidays', are so irresponsible. They do give good companies a bad name and when they get so many bad reviews on so many sites - something is seriously wrong.

OTB trade as: On the Beach, I book holidays, Otbeach. No secret in that information.
You seem to insist that they are worse than any other cheap online agent. That is your opinion and of course you are entitled to it, just as others are entitled to theirs. It doesn't necessarily make one right and the other wrong!

Whilst I can understand someone being upset/irritated/angry etc when they have a bad experience I am beginning to wonder where this thread is going. Are we discussing a problem/complaint with the aim of assisting or are we debating/attacking a company?
If the former, then all we are doing is recycling what has been said before, not only about this company but most of the others in the holiday market.
If the latter then perhaps people should consider that HT is not a platform for doing so. Anyone who does so should very carefully consider what they post as they are legally responsible for their comments.

We do have posts from members who are satisfied with the service they have received from OTB. If an individual feels their own experience is not as it should be then we will try to help. That is what we do on here.

fwh

Thank you both! Sunnadict - If you think there are equally bad companies as OTB, you should name them! My point is that OTB, On the Beach.co.uk., OTBeach, I book holidays, need to have a little limelight, and thanks to you they are getting it. Their poor attitude towards their customers is reflected in the large number of bad reviews over the years. As for you, fwh, your expertise was hardly a boon; so if you think this thread is going nowhere, don't reply. Somehow I think you will, as there are other motives involved here! This thread is about lack of service from OTB, so if you prefer the nicer comments, stick with them. I will continue to press my point and if it means one person has a pleasant holiday because they didn't book with ‘On The Beach', then I have hit my target!

If you now consider you've hit your target, please change the record. Your posts are becoming stale ... and you could find that you destroy the effect you've been trying so hard to create .... single handed.

As the original poster typed, this post is becoming very weary.