YOu CAN ask about smoking....

And decline a job offer to a smoker...

ATB,J.

http://www.recruiter.co.uk/news/smokers-face-discrimination/333019.article

ATB,J.

YOu CAN ask about smoking....

And decline a job offer to a smoker...

I wonder how Consult GEE actually know that is what's happening?

And is there any case law to establish this? Banning smoking breaks doesn't strike me as being necessarily discriminatory - the leeway given by some employers that enables smokers to take frequent breaks away from their desk causes tension if others are expected to remain at their work stations apart from agreed tea and lunch breaks. Enforcing what used to be standard practice for everybody to have very regulated breaks from work is not discriminatory.

The article linked to above only cites one case of an employer saying that only non-smokers need not apply - did anybody challenge this or was it simply accepted and, therefore, never tested in law? Or where there specific circumstances attached to this case that meant that it was not an appropriate/possible for a smoker to be appointed? For example, over 20 years ago, long before any smoking bans, a colleague from another office base was re-located to my base. Initially it was suggested that we share an office but he was a very heavy smoker and because of my own underlying chest condition I refused unless he agreed not to smoke in it. I was supported in this by both my union and the occupational health officer on the grounds that his right to smoke would otherwise result in me having to take more sick leave and alternative arrangements were made. These were shortlived, however, because this was a youth centre and other colleagues, even the smokers, objected to him being allowed to smoke at all in the centre because they felt that it undermined the health education message that they were trying to promote amongst the teenagers. They themselves never smoked in or near the centre because they felt that they should be trying to be better role models and it would also lead to problems in relation to the centre's rules that banned the young peopple from smoking on the premises. Initially he was instructed not to smoke when young people were in the centre - something he found very difficult to adhere to - but in the end he was disciplined and sacked because it turned out that his addiction to alcohol was an even greater problem and the Council was never going to agree to him being able to keep alcohol in the office and/or turn up for work drunk!

SM

When the smoking ban began at the hospital I worked my colleagues who smoked started going to the bus shelter outside the hospital as smoking was banned anywhere on the hospital premises.
By the time they got their coat from the changing room and walked to the bus stop,had their cig and returned 15-20 minutes had gone by.
I then used to say i was off for a cuppa for the same length of time they had been away from the ward.
They were not happy about this and it caused a lot of problems until it was finally decided that no one leaves the hospital whilst on duty.
After a while most had given up.

When we have been on hol in lanzarote most restaurants we went to had smoking allowed outside, the areas were covered but not enclosed and they were smoke free inside , there was a couple of bars that had allowed smoking inside even though they had the doors open. The point is whether smoking is banned in the open air outside areas like terraces/balconies as they are not enclosed but are public areas. Perhaps most restaurants/bars can create designated smoking areas but obviously this might cost money some can ill afford whilst battling a recession.
The smoking ban in the uk did have a partial affect on pubs closing alongside other issues. I think quite a few smokers gave up going to the pub or staying for less time and despite the cleaner fresher environment now inside pubs they haven't seen the non smokers who disliked the smoke packing out the pubs instead.
Luckily spain has much better weather than the uk , so people like to be outside drinking and eating , so perhaps the smoking ban will not have too much effect on businesses?

The problem with the new law is that it was passed a fortnight ago by Royal Decree - ie without consensus in the Spanish parliament. When they pass laws this way, it ends up that people hear about it through the TV and newspapers and by word of mouth. The problem being that nobody - especially those really affected - bar/disco owners, schools, hospitals know where the law stands. Ministers have been on the TV here the last few days trying to clarify things but as usual here, the badly thought out parts of the new law will be ignored whist the reasonable parts will be upheld.

From what I have seen, smoking inside bars is not and will not be allowed. Smoking on terraces outside bars is allowed if the terrace is open on two sides or more - from what I have seen in these first few days, people will be allowed to smoke on any terrace that is open on just one side. In theory one is not allowed to smoke within a 50m radius of a childrens' playground or a school, but this will be taken up as not being able to smoke at the entrance to a school or a playground; one will not be forced to cross the road when passing a school whilst smoking a ciggie. In theory, and according to a government official, one may not smoke in a bus shelter which has a back and two side walls, but nobody will bother to argue with a smoker standing at a bus stop.

As for hotels, I haven't heard anything apart from the 30% of rooms for smokers if the hotel so wishes. I would imagine though, that smoking would be allowed on balconies, given that a hotel room will be a temporary home guests - the same as for prisons and psychiatric hospitals.

It seems that some people are relating their experiences and observations about the smoking laws and their alleged success in the UK, however, this topic relates to the smoking ban in Spain, which is culturally and economically different.

If you are caught smoking in an area that your hotel has deemed as being non-smoking, the management can insist that you stop, can ask you to leave the hotel, or call the police. Don't expect them to ignore the law, for repeatedly breaking the new laws the hotel could face a fine of up to €600,000.

It is not just the bar owners close to AI hotels whose livelihoods are at stake, contrary to popular belief, there is a little bit more to Spain than the areas immediately surrounding All Inclusive hotels in tourist hotspots. Get away from the tourist resorts and you would have seen over the past 2 years that where bars have created, through legal necessity, smoking and non-smoking areas, the non-smoking sections are almost always deserted. It is space that the bar owner is paying for which is redundant. The new laws mean that the entire interiors of bars are now, more or less, a waste of space.
It is OK to say that the weather here is nicer and that smokers can sit on terraces, but it isn't nice all year round. In the winter it is often too unpleasant to sit outside and in spring and autumn it rains, sometimes extremely heavily. These are times that the average tourist does not visit, but we have to make money all year round.

Employers in Spain can, and often do, stipulate that they will not consider applicants for vacancies if they are smokers.

HT is primarily a forum frequented by UK based members and who are concerned about how this will affect them as visitors to Spain - this is why the discussion has centred on members personal preferences and what they want from or like to be able to do on their holidays. From your recent post I am assuming that you are a resident in Spain who owns a bar away from the main tourist areas? If this is the case and you are primarily catering for a local, Spanish clientele then I can understand that your concerns will be different to those of most of us who have contibuted to this discussion in the main. But if you are wanting to campaign for or seek support for a change in the law then this isn't the place to do that - apart from anything else, with perhaps a few exceptions, I doubt that any of us can vote in Spain.

The only impact that we could have is to vote with our feet and the general tenor of the discussion here suggests that a good many view this as a positive change and are likely to 'vote' in the opposite way to what you assume your local clientele will. I for one have spent far more time in bars in the cities of inland Andalucia or on La Gomera since the restrictions on smoking were first introduced than I ever used to. So potentially there will be some winners in some places. Scotland has had an equally draconion ban in place (complete with it being the proprietor who gets subtantially fined if the law is broken) for some years now and on the whole both proprietors and customers have adapted to the law and we hardly have the climate that is conducive to outdoor drinking either. You might be pleasantly surpised and find that yours do to.

SM

i know it's a different country but the smoking ban in Greece has possibly caused the most hilarious spectacle on record,the sight of a policeman going into a bar to warn the manager about not allowing smoking inside when he himself is smoking a fag

Now the above I CAN imagine

Just home from benidorm and you could still smoke on your balconie of my hotel ambassador playa ..Friends in helios did the same no problems there but what annoyed me was the manager of the ambassador was in his room just of the reception in ambassador 2 with the biggest cigar ive ever seen puffing away ..Mazza

hi all
can i ask members who have returned recently.
just wondering where if anywhere you can smoke in spanish hotels since the ban came in. can you smoke i your room or by the pool ?
i'm not a smoker myself but my husband is and we will be going away in march(not booked yet most likely o to lanzarote).
regards tracey

I emailed the apartments we have stayed in on several occasions to ask what their policy will be (I was asking for their price list and tagged the message onto the end). They replied saying that they will follow it as is law which means no smoking in any enclosed areas. Smoking will be permitted in all outside areas and they are allowed to allocate 30% of their rooms as smoking rooms. They did say that until they open in March, its still a little unclear. One question I should have asked, but didnt (maybe another email later on), was would smoking outside on the balcony of a non-smoking room be allowed? We dont smoke indoors at home and certainly wouldnt do it on holiday but does that mean we would have to have a smoking or non-smoking room even though we wouldnt smoke indoors? I think its still in the early stages of implementation and think we are going to have to wait until the season starts for the answers.

hi there srh.............yes it will be most likely when the season kicks in that more will be revealed. I have read, copied and pasted a poster from another holiday web site a review from a couple returning from a few nights in Hotel Murmuri, barcelonia,in 7th january 2011 where the wife had requested a smoking room when booking in december 2010.......they found that due to the smoking ban in place, there where no smoking rooms, and that no requests earlier were guaranteed........They then where shown " a room, a very small room with terrible view ", BUT THEY WOULD NEED TO UPGRADE TO A SMOKING ROOM COSTING AN EXTRA £180 FOR 3 NIGHTS STAY. i could provide a link, but dont know if its allowed...........My wife and I are both smokers, and you may have already read my views in earlier postings.........We have booked for 2 weeks later this year, before knowing of this " tighteneing up policy ".........we most likely will be cancelling.............What annoys me most about this new news is that it appears that the public are being encouraged to " tout " on smokers breaking the rules........ie if you are smoking on balconies and its a no no, your room neighbours complaining your breaking the rules etc etc.... (living as we do in northern ireland, i know only too well what happens to " touts " )

harry

Personally I think its a little extreme to be cancelling a holiday and losing your money just for the sake of having a fag, but thats your choice and not mine. Like I said previously, I think we will have to wait until the holiday season starts before jumping to any conclusions.

personally find your comparison between a complaint about someone smoking next to your room and people informing on paramilitaries during the ulster troubles ridiculous, unneccessary, cantankerous and misguided and in truth a bit desperate.

just an opinion like

Me too sambacasual, think a bit of keeping things in preportion is needed. It's not the various hotels fault that the govenment have tightened up the laws on smoking and there will of course be the odd hotelier who trys to exploit the situation as detailed above. But the compararison seems a bit OTT.

To be honest Harry, I would have to have a long hard look at myself if an addiction was so bad that it warranted canceling a holiday and loosing money.

Also on the paying extra for a room I would say its fair enough? after all your habit is damaging the decor of the room and these rooms will need to be re decorated more often than the other rooms in the hotel , surly its unfair to pass this cost on ?

Hope you do get to go on your holiday and have a good time, also hope you don't have to kneecap any grasses whilst away