My guess is that the flights listed when you booked are the ones they would have liked, but now that they have been confirmed they are not going to happen. Sorry, whilst I understand you not being happy it does seem that this tale does keep coming round on a regular basis when people book so far in front. Personally I would get onto them and see what alternatives they can offer or you can negotiate.

fwh

thanks fwh, appreciate your comment.
Hope they will be able to negotiate, as it's such a big change, although I don't want to pay any more really.

Unfortunatly you were booking a holiday based on this years charter flight schedule not the ones for 2012. Flight schedules are always subject to change and if a holiday is booked in June one year for May the next year it is very probable that this will happen. It is so common that it will be covered in their terms and conditions somewhere.

You could get on to them now and try and barter for a free late check out room and if you have a sympathetic travel consultant may get lucky but it's not something I would count on. I wouldn't wait for them to contact you as they probably wont bother until the balance has been paid and then you have no leverage.

I wouldn't pay a lot extra for a day flight if I was booking months in advance, as you say you could easliy cancel rebook and fork out the extra £300 and it might happen all over again, best hang on to your money.

I was going to say similar to doepsmc that the flight could change again - we've seen it happen

Years ago we paid for our room till 6pm and then had to wait around till 1.30am for the airport pickup. To be honest by the time I got home all the positives of the holiday had disappeared and I was fed up and exhausted. I vowed never to do that again.
We haven't gone package tours for a while now so its a bit easier to sort out. My suggestion if the worst comes to the worst is to look around the resort for cheap room only rates. As May is not high season you might find you could get a room till departure for the same price as your room till 6pm. As its basically only for dumping your things and having a bed for a lie down then you are only looking for secure and clean. Have a look around when you are in resort and see. You won't miss out as usually you are not guaranteed a late check at your hotel and have to ask on the day of departure.

They may not inform you of the change in flight times until next year in case they change again.

The times may have changed by a total of 17.5 hours which is a major change. However if they were to inform you of a change of 7h 40m and then later of a change of 9h 50m these would not be a major change and each one is less than 12 hours.

I'm not sure there is much you can do at the moment. You would need to wait until next year when the times are finalised and you are officially advised of any changes.

luci

Luci, I'm not so sure that announcing the time change in parts would get them around the 12 hour rule. It would certainly be worth challenging if they claimed it did.

But this is the old story that appears every year and people never learn. The big Tour Operators trade in some very dodgy ways and probably don't have enough cash in the bank due to excessive discounting and very lean margins. They may be in a position to need some money from summer 2012 customers to pay the bills for winter 2011 customers (their money went on summer 2011...). So they start selling early to keep the cash moving. But when they start selling holidays the flights haven't been confirmed, they may need to see how the market is going before they even make a definate decision on what they want to fly and even then they still have to wait for the annual slots conference before they get confirmation that they can fly at a particular time. I've said before, probably this time last year, or the year before, that when they sell a holiday with a flight time they should be made to disclose what stage the flight is at - still being planned, permission applied for or permission granted.

2012 will have it's own problems, during the Olympic Games there are restrictions on air traffic movements within the London and South East area on top of increased demand for access to the London airports, so a lot of slack will have gone out of the system.

hi all and thanks for your replies, been working all weekend so just got round to replying!

I understand what you say about being so far in advance although to say people never learn sounds a bit harsh I often book this far in advance and am not naive enough to expect the exact same flight timings but this is a bit of a leap from what was obviously booked as "day" flights to (middle of the) "night" flights, and I have never had such a major change as this. Even if they had changed to evening flights I would have not been surprised and just would have had a little moan and accepted it but I think this is pretty extreme.

I like your idea Steve, about disclosing when booking the stage of advance flights - shame I don't think they would be that open!
All in I think I will get onto them sooner rather than wait for them, as like you say doepsmc, I have more leverage when they are still waiting for my money!

Thanks guys I will let you know if I get any joy from them

well got no further info from FC really, took 56 minutes to talk to someone, after the first girl told me this wasn't classed as a major change - suggested she google her companies t&c's she tranferred me to "programming".

The second lady was sympathetic but said the flight times are under review so at this time it is not classed as a change so she is not able to alter the booking at all at the moment. I told her I wasn't hopeful about it reversing to a early morning flight again but all I can do is wait to hear from them - at least it won't be a shock when the letter comes!

the flight times are under review

which is as close to an honest answer as you'll get! Bet they don't tell people who are still booking though.

But the first person you spoke to must be up for an award as the most useless customer services person in Britain, I just wonder whether she has to google her way to work in the morning!!

probably steve!
really sneaky way to sell holidays I think, as I have at this stage not got what I booked and (part) paid for, but am without any options. If I saw this holiday now I definately would not book it, and when they do finalise timings, there may be huge difference in prices etc making a "comparative" change impossible. "Later in the year" was the ladys best guessimate

Thanks for all thought everyone, If anyone is interested I will report back when I hear anything!

Final summer programme is normally finalised March/ April.

really sneaky way to sell holidays

Its not a really sneaky way to sell holidays.
If you had read the T&C you would have seen this can happen.

Flight timings shown by us are for guidance only and may change.

Its a chance you take so far in advance

I did say "... I think" and I stand by my opinion
Maybe I should have said " in my opinion.... " as in my opinion it is!

I know the t&c's state that and most customers will know to expect some degree of change to timings, as I have already said in the post, but obviously a change to this extent is "major" or they wouldn't have to offer to refund all monies paid / exchange without loss / difference refund if less value / compensation etc in the same t&c's.

I would cancel now, and keep an eye out for the next few months I wouldn't give them your money gaining interest for so long.

I travel a lot, and there is no such thing as an unrepeatable deal. Bide your time and see what comes up, they don't deserve your business.

Be careful if you decide to cancel, you will lose your deposit!!

I can't cancel yet as the flights are still under review, so FC are not telling me officially of any change yet. When they do I could then cancel without losing my deposit as in the t&c's this is a "major change" and cancellation with full refund would then be an option.
I wish I didn't have to give them my money but they are the only tour op to use our hotel, which is quite popular hence why I tend to try to book early, and to book direct with the hotel is really expensive

Taken from FC t&c's :

Major changes to your holiday
Occasionally, we have to make major changes to the flight or accommodation making up your holiday with us. If we tell you about any of these changes after we have confirmed your holiday booking, you may either:
- accept the new arrangements offered by us; or
- accept a replacement holiday from us of equivalent or closely similar standard and price, if one is available; this can include the choice of a replacement holiday from another TUI Travel Group company. Should you choose this option the terms and conditions of your holiday will not change and these conditions will still apply to your booking.or
- cancel your holiday with us and receive a full refund of all monies paid.

Either way, we will pay you compensation, using the Compensation table shown, unless the change is for reasons beyond our control (see the ‘Important note - events beyond our control') and we will always refund the difference in price if the replacement holiday is of a lower standard and price.

Major changes to your holiday for which we will pay compensation unless the change is for reasons beyond our control (see 'Important note - events beyond our control'), using the scale shown, may include the following changes: a significant change of destination; a change in accommodation to that of a lower category, a change in the time of your departure or return flight by more than 12 hours, a change of UK departure airport (excluding changes between London airports, London, Ebbsfleet and Ashford stations and between Dover/Folkestone ports). A delay to your flight that we need to make within 24 hours before you are due to depart will not be considered a major change. These changes are only examples and there may be other significant changes which constitute major changes. This standard payment will not affect your statutory or other legal rights. We will only make one payment for each full-fare-paying adult in the holiday booking. Any children not paying the full adult fare will receive 50% of these amounts. Children using a free child place will not receive any standard payment.

Compensation
Any compensation payable will be on these scales, based on how many days before your booked holiday departure we tell you of a major change.

Period before departure when a major change is notified Compensation payable per person
More than 84 days £0
83-29 days £10
28-15 days £20
14-8 days £30
7-0 days £40

If the change is not acceptable to you
If any major change indicated above is not acceptable to you, you can cancel your holiday booking. In this case, we will refund all the money you have paid us and will pay you compensation, as shown above, depending on how many days before your holiday we tell you about this change unless the change is for reasons beyond our control (see 'Important note - events beyond our control'). This standard payment will not affect your statutory or other legal rights.