We have already booked to go back, as others have said we love the food and the constant sunshine and meeting up with everyone at the meet ups. I suppose we have become a bit oblivious to the bad side of Goa and look at things through rose coloured glasses but I can't imagine not going. I agree the domestic tourists do spoil things a bit with their drunkeness, throwing litter around and driving around in cars which are much too big for the roads but I suppose it's their country. I hope to retire this time next year so hopefully this year will be my last 3 week trip and I will be able to stay for much longer in 2013/14. Sorry Liz you will have to stick to the 3 weeks for a bit longer!

Although i wouldn`t say never again to goa, after having a break this year and trying Thailand i am hooked it was a real breath of fresh air,the hotels were amazing as were the beaches restaurants and people,we went out every evening and didn`t find it sleazy at all,we did some fantastic trips and saw sights that will stay with me forever,however after having said all that we all really missed goa, especially the beach culture which Thailand doesn`t seem to have,and meeting up with a lot of lovely people that we have made friends with over the years a lot of them from this site.

Well we went to Cuba in Jan/Feb this year as were a little fed up with Goa and felt during our visit in 2011 that things were going to pot. In Cuba we stayed for 2 weeks all inclusive at the Brisas Villas in Guardalavaca (with premium) and we paid only £800 per head! Guardalavaca is a rural area (they say it is the real Cuba) and we did some great trips and I even swam with Dolphins. The proverty is GRINDING and unlike in India there is no way out. The people have nothing but were still friendly and so happy to receive the stuff I had taken from the Pound Shop! Once they know you they will tell you how they feel about the regime but at first are reticent. There is not ONE scrap of rubbish to be seen anywhere and you could walk along and see all sorts of wild life etc. Fantastic and I will go back but how long will this situation go on once Castro goes is anybodies guess and you cannot begrude them a good future anymore than you can begrude Indians a good one too.

BUT the reason we went to Cuba was becuase during our 2011 visit to Goa the service in our shack seemed less attentive and careful. Prices were going up - ie first year we went in 2003 spent £22.00 per day now between £35-40 per day for both of us - ok this is cheap compared to UK but prices are still going up no doubt about it.

Also rubish was terrible and huge rats running round the grounds our hotel was not a good thing to behold!!!

As for the domestic tourists in their big cars - well 3-4 years ago we saw a local knocked off his moped at killed one night at about 12.00am and yes it was an idiot turning into a side street in a 4x4. Also heard from friends who went this year that the domestic tourists were causing all sorts of trouble drinking, being rude fighting etc.. It will settle but my guess is that emerging Indian rich and middle class will need time to adjust and lets face it the Brits can be just as bad as can the Russians!! Funny enough in Cuba it was the Canadians that had the bad reputation and the Brits were considered well behaved by the Cubans!!!

Also agree that tour ops prices for GOA are OFF the scale for 2012/13 season but I will wait to see if the prices drop before we decide to go or not! If not maybe Gambia/Cuba/Cape Verde/Mexico.

However I know we will be back as in in October 2013 it is my husbands 60th so intend to take 10 weeks off and do Cambodia/Vietnam then on to Goa for R&R as it does still seem like home from home and still holds some magic for us.

PS on the "old days" you could get 3 weeks for £700-£800 in Goa but now it is at least £400 more expensive.

Hi fredthedog. I think that you've hit so many nails on the head as to why, despite friends continually telling me that I'll love Goa, I still haven't been and Cuba keeps drawing me back.

I think that one of the big differences is that nobody in Cuba has very much - even those who are better off aren't hugely better off than the majority. There simply aren't the big income differentials between the richest and the poorest that you get in India so you don't get the sort of behaviours that I'm increasingly reading about here at resorts that local tourists frequent. Cubans who have got more than most on the whole don't flaunt it and there is the expectation that if you have you that you'll share it around the wider extended family anyway.

Another is that the infrastructure is there to get the streets cleaned etc. A managed socialist economy means that unemployment is not the big issue it is here at home or in places like India - even if your job is cleaning the streets, you have a job. The schools have more success than UK ones at ensuring that everybody leaves being able to read and write, kids don't have to go into debt in order to go to University and I've never met a Cuban under 50 who doesn't have great teeth because the dental service is free and good. So people mightn't have much in the way of material wealth but they have a lot of other things going for them - and perhaps more importantly, I've never met a Cuban who isn't hugely proud of being Cuban. Even those who in private will criticise the system and the Government, once they get to know you, certainly don't want to go back to a situation where the corruption that characterised the pre-Revolutionary Batista dictatorship returns. Also, they are still proud of Cuba and what it has achieved compared to many other countries, even if they think that things would be better with a more open market economic system.

And think that it is this pride that means that they take care of what they have and do recognise that the tourist industry is a source of wealth generation both for the country as a whole and for individual workers as well. And that's what makes the big difference for me - there are few barriers put in the way of tourists wanting to visit - the charge for a 'visa' is really just an entry tax and the departure fee is just another word for a tax as well. There's no bureacracy making it difficult for visitors - you just hand the cash over! The two tier pricing structure with the use of National Pesos for the local economic activity and Convertibles for anything that a tourist is likely to want to buy is open and upfront. Yes, you do pay more than the locals for many things but you know that you are going to from the beginning and the prices are openly declared rather than having to negotiate an informal two tier pricing policy were you never know where you really stand as a visitor and hence whether and by how much you are being ripped off.

And the only time I tried to discretely offer a bribe to an official (by saying that I'd pay any 'fine' that the taxi driver had to pay because he'd gone the wrong way down a one way street in order to ensure that he dropped me off right outside the front door of the casa I was staying in) the whole thing caused consternation! What with the driver trying to shut me up and shoo me into the casa and the policeman taking offence that I thought he could be bribed! The situation was only calmed down when we explained that it was common in many parts of Europe for traffic policemen to be able to levy on the spot fines for minor traffic violations and that of course we would have expected to be given an official receipt if that had been the case here in Cuba. I don't really know whether the peso per kilo of overweight baggage I have regularly paid for on internal Cubana flights to be a bribe or not (even if you never receive a receipt for it!) but rather a mutually creative way of solving the problem of getting an extra case filled with stuff I was taking for friends from Havana to Santiago and vice versa

SM

Having just returned from touring Rajasthan I have to say both yes and no to this now. In some places we were paying English prices for some meals, drinks were definately much dearer in the rest of India. I now really appreciate the food in Goa, not that I didn't before, I was bored to death with what mainly consisted of rice and cauliflower in lots of places and not an alcoholic drink in sight. We were desperate for a cold beer when we stopped for lunch on hot days. The hotels were definately of a much better standard than Goa for what we paid and made me realise how much we were being ripped off in Goa with regard to hotel prices and standard of accommodation. So all those people who say 'it is India' when we complain on here about hotels, we proved to ourselves that there are very good cheap hotels in parts of India and the Goan hotel owners are just taking the mick. There was far less rubbish around in the towns we visited also. Having said all that we can't wait to get back to Goa in December and hope to do more touring of India in the future.

Hi All
Just had to add my threepenny worth to this debate, let me start by saying we're going back this year for the first time since 08'09, did'nt plan to but found some very good prices on Qatar's web-site, so off we go in November for 4 weeks.

That is the first point I'd like to make, 4 weeks plus, and Goa is definitely value for money, I wont go into all the minuses regarding lack of infrastructure, sanitation etc, they have already been well documented on this forum. I don't think 2 weeks on a package staying in a 2/3/4 star hotel is good value, when you factor in the airfare, visa's etc it is expensive.

We did as most people do after their first visit to Goa, and that is to source out a good guesthouse, we went "package" on our first holiday there, but have travelled independently ever since, staying in some wonderful old colonial style guesthouses and small family run hotels, with all the amenities (A/C, pool etc).

I realise not everyone can go for more than 2 weeks, we could'nt at first, but we we're bitten by the Goa bug after our first visit, and so wangled our annual leave to give us more time there.

I've since retired, and our last visit was for 2 months, we've been to other exotic location's over the years but Goa keeps pulling us back, I regularly visit the HT web-site, and I've read with interest all arguments for and against Goa, and I'm sure we'll find changes, good and bad, I just hope there are more of the former than the latter.
Regards Barney

Barney,
I enjoyed what you said and I have been alarmed by what others have said. My first time in Goa was in 1976 when most places had 'pig toilets'. I will leave that to your imagination!
My wife and I, both in our 60's and retired want to go to Goa for 5 weeks or so next late Feb 2013. I like the idea of local type colonial guest houses- would you be willing to share any for me please.
All i have checked out so far is ex-pats who have bought holiday places and pay for them by renting out. All seem a tad impersonal for me though. Will do all transport arranging ourselves and fly to Bombay and then A/C seat by train. Prob spens a couple of nights in old Bombay.

Everyone says it is getting very expensive. Can that be qualified by some of the bar/shack prices of a few things. eg how much is 600ml Kingfisher beer. A basic curry and rice. A tandoori chicken and a nan etc etc.

How about tuk-tuk fares?

Oh forgot to mention- south Goa we like. I first stayed with an old family in Colva back in 1976- both dead now, sadly.

cheers, Pete

Sadly we have booked 3 weeks again for Feb 2013 and half paid for our Regal park apartement and now looking at flights I can't find anything around £700 or lower so its getting expensive now to get there and stay there really .I think next year will be the last time for me...... this Goa holiday is going to cost me £1000 to get there and stay for 3 weeks ...then eating out every day is costing more now plus visas etc

Who are those flights with that cost £700?

Everyone says it is getting very expensive. Can that be qualified by some of the bar/shack prices of a few things. eg how much is 600ml Kingfisher beer. A basic curry and rice. A tandoori chicken and a nan etc etc.

I feel very sorry for the locals who have to manage on a small income but for the tourist it is not that bad due to the exchange rate, now around 85 IR to the pound

I can't go back as far as 1976 but in 1990 you would only get 27 IR for a pound and I think the voucher we had for a three course meal in at our hotel on the Sinquerim / Candolim border was for 50 IR, two years later the £1 bought 50 IR and the voucher was for 90 IR, today there are 88 IR to the pound and a three course meal would cost from 500 IR

A large (660ml) beer is around a £1 in most bars but you will probably pay more for the food or if the food is cheaper the drinks might be a bit more expensive but a couple on holiday can go out for a good meal and drinks for £15 to £20 in a tourist area but it is cheaper in South Goa around the Colva area

Shacks tend to be similar in price to restaurants, some are a little bit more expensive if they get very little trade in the evenings so have to earn in the daytime but most still offer very good value for money with free sunbeds and sun shade but they did not exist in Candolim in 1990, in fact there was not much once you went outside our hotel back then

We are in are in our 60's and now spend most of the winter months in Goa, I can guarantee you one hundred plus percent that it is much cheaper, warmer and a lot more fun than winter in the UK

couldnt agree more meagain
chilly

Meagain,
Many thanks for that. We have in the past few years spent a lot of time in the Philippines- thats where my wife comes from and we have a place by the sea out there. Nothing like Goa though! Definitely NOT in a tourist area either. Not so relaxing for my wife as she has a lot of family who always come around and need watering and feeding. Unless you have been in that position it is difficult to explain it all- lets just put it down to 'culture'!!
When I was first in Goa(colva) back in 1976- i took the ship down from Bombay and slept out on deck! I stayed in an old Portuguese house run by a brother and sister. I went back about 6 years ago and the place was still there- run down somewhat but still with the same charm. they were both still alive but I doubt whether the brother is now as he looked quite ill. Maybe I will pop in on them when we return next March. I hope it is 'them'. They spoke together in Portuguese and often spoke well of Colonial times. the modern day Goan would have no concept of that though except through the old buildings and legacy of the Catholic church.
I don't recall beer being available then and hardly any places to eat out. just a couple by the circle in Colva and taht was it. NO beach shacks or music. A 'plate meal' was about 2 to 4 rupees and about 40 rupees to the pound strerling. No western toilets in the old Colonial house just a couple of 'pig toilets'.
I find the biggest problem when revisiting places is not so much the rise in prices etc, although that is bound to happen, but the change in the type of people- their attitudes and behaviour etc. that is NOT only in Goa but worldwide. I am an exiled Londoner and think that of London these days as well.
For all the so called pros and cons, Goa today is what you make of it personally. What our expectations are etc.
To bring in a football analagy- when England played in tournaments in the past evryone had high 'expectations' and they never ever delivered(1966 excepted!)- in this tournament we had very low expectations and have been pleasantly surprised how England are doing. I think that summs it all up.

Pete

For all the so called pros and cons, Goa today is what you make of it personally. What our expectations are etc.

Agree with you Pete and we have grown up with the changes in Goa over the years but it used to be a very inexpensive place to get to, even five or six years ago you could pick up two or three week holidays for a few hundred pounds so you did not expect very much but now that it costs from £500 just for the flight and people are demanding better hotel standards that is pushing up the costs of accommodation, making the cost of a holiday in Goa on a par with the Caribbean or Thailand but cheaper once there

The quality of food and hygiene standards in Goa has improved beyond recognition over the years and it is still cheap to eat and drink in the average shack or restaurant, even the up market places, I only hope that inflation and taxes don't push the restaurant price's beyond what foreign tourists will pay because while the domestic tourist numbers are increasing, I can't see Goa's tourist industry surviving as it is today without the six month influx of foreign tourists

I loved Goa in the old days and still love it today but worried that it could easily become over priced

yes i agree and believe a lot of it is down to our expectations and also what we make of it...be it Goa or anywhere ... i too have watched the changes in Goa over the years and agree it was once so very cheap to get there and stay there, that we didnt mind all the downsides and lack of facilities including the pig toilets etc we even found that side of it endearing...it was for us a very very cheap 2nd holiday and we loved all it had to offer... we still love it but agree with meagain the foreign tourists wont be so prolific if flights etc are too high and standards aren't , ... although that said it doesnt seem to put off the Russians. there are definitely less UK tourist now though compared to a few yrs ago..

also have to agree with you on this one too perdrogooner, i too am an exiled Londoner and feel the same way about there and other places i go back too.. such is life i guess

I find the biggest problem when revisiting places is not so much the rise in prices etc, although that is bound to happen, but the change in the type of people- their attitudes and behaviour etc. that is NOT only in Goa but worldwide. I am an exiled Londoner and think that of London these days as well.

I think for long termers its still a bargain with cheap cost of living by comparison to uk.. for two weekers maybe not so much nowadays.
chilly

Such is life! At least our memories cannot be taken away and they are priceless(sorry about the pun!)
I want to take my wife away next February time for about 3 weeks. Cannot realy afford all the luxury hotels and we generally always go for budget accommodation. We did that in Udaipur a couple of years ago and had a fantastic time- treated like one of the family. Spent 3 weeks there and loved it.
Having said that Goa still captivates me. During my backpacking days of the 70's I finished up in both Kerala and Sri Lanka. they are another two options but I have no idea how they compare 'cost of livng wise' to Goa.
Also I know I have to get my finger out quite sharpish to get a flight!!

not sure about sri lanka, we havent spent long enough there to judge... but we found kerala more expensive although much of that is also down to the alcohol as its a dry state and although you can buy alcohol its much more expensive, having said that its a few years since we were there... Goa in my opinion is still a great value holiday and still holds a lot of charm

chilly

Goa can still be done on a budget if you have the time

Turkish airways were doing flights from Manchester or Gatwick to Mumbai via Istanbul for just over £400 return, The train or coach to Goa is very cheap and in the village's away from the busy resorts you can still find cheap rooms to rent with a family also lots of local eating places do a veg rice plate for under 50 pence but don't think it would suit the average holiday maker

I am usually worrying about getting my Visa at this time of the year but dont think i can be bothered going to Goa. I have been going for the last 12 years and 11 of those years for 6 months.
Goa has got very busy with domestic tourists who rent scooters and have their girlfriend try and drive it on the main roads while they sit behind her.So dangerous.Goa used to be busy weekends and festivals but last season from Oct when i was there its just so busy.

I do miss the Goa me and my friend went to 12 years ago where the shops were just shacks with palm leaves as roofs.The Goans were friendly ,now they seem to be friendly as they just want your cash/mobile

Oh you can get treatment at the candolim hospital if your a tourist. I had my arm put in plaster and had blood test done in the morning and had the results back in the afternoon.Cost 100rs to see doctor and i think 100rs for blood test.Would never set foot in vrundavan hospital as have met so many people with horror stories and horrendous bills .