This is the first year of operation to Turkey by Kosmar, therefore no one will be able to help you BUT we went with them to Santorini and had no complaints. Check out the Kosmar Forum in the Greece section, there are mixed reports. Give them a go and don't forget to post your report on your return.

thanks to cruise controll

wizard

Quick query- would an A class be better than a C class or vice versa- the brochure is no help?

Assume you are looking to holiday in Greece or Cyprus if so apartments are usually graded Dourest (Very Basic) grade C roughly 1 star,grade B roughly 2 star grade, A roughly 3 star many of the T.O's use their own rating system so if you can look at the accommodations own web site

wizard

Hi
we've been with Kosmar many times and going again in June.
Never had a bad deal. Some of the flights are 'Iffy' but for the price you can't complain. Their accomodation has always been acceptable and never needed to complain about the standard.
Good luck inTurkey it's a while since we went their.
Greekofile

Its a long story but here goes
I have travelled to the Greek Islands umpteen times and I am well aware of what to expect in terms of accommodation standards, etc.
In January 2005 we booked a 2 week holiday from the end of May at the Alexandra Studios in Lassi with Kosmar.
In March 2005 we paid the balance.
In April 2005, Kosmar changed the flight times, but more importantly changed our accommodation to the Villa Angelos in Lassi.
I explained that having seen that accommodation when we booked, we would not choose to go there, we were advised that there was no alternative accommodation for a 2 week period and that we would have to change from one accommodation to another after 1 week if we did not accept the Villa Angelos.
I elected to cancel my booking and requested a refund but I was referred to the small print in the brochure which supported Kosmars decision to change my accommodation whether I liked it or not.
We reluctantly accepted the change but reiterated that we wanted a sunny balcony and an upper level room.
The flight was delayed and the room we were allocated was like a cell - we immediately complained and continued to complain for a week but we were given several promises which were not kept and we were constantly fobbed off with excuses by the reps in resort.
The accommodation we were allocated was adjacent to the proerty we had originally booked, which was empty and there was no comparison in terms of standards so we moved to the Alexandra Studios at the end of the first week at our own cost.
I complained to Kosmar on my return and continued to do so through the travel agent I had booked with but after 9 months of correspondence, I have finally been given a cheque for £40 as a goodwill gesture.
I feel no goodwill towards Kosmar, I will NEVER use them again and I will do everything in my power to advise others of the way they treat their customers.
I have a CD Rom with comparative photos to prove the point but Kosmar just wasnt interested.
P.S. Although Greece is getting more expensive, the Greek islands are amazing, Kefalonia is beautiful and Lassi is a nice resort.

Hi denzil and welcome to HT!

Download a copy of the Safe and Sound brochure by clicking on my signature. It gives details of your rights when a company changes your accommodation. It also gives details of how to contact Ros Fernihough, a solicitor specialising in travel, who can give you a free evaluation of your case.

luci

Just been notified by thomas cook, that kosmar have cancelled flying out of stansted to corfu this summer, so we have had to switch to birmingham.

Kosmar Holidays have been purchased by the Excel Airways group, see XL.COM for more info.

Kosmar always had a bad reputation for changing/cancelling flights. Perhaps this might help as I presume quite a lot of the flights will be XL. Problem is thought that XL don't always get the best of reviews!

Personally I wouldn't use Kosmar again - had flights cancelled and times changed on a few occasions - does put you off a company.

Pippa

We have had similar experiences to the above.
We paid final installmaent of holiday to skiathos not only changed flights but accomadation to something quite inappropriate no help if we cancelled lose money so we went anyway.
We will never go with Kosmar again. Customer service nil, And as for tour operator of the year what a joke.
Hope exel will help clean up there act but I'm not holding my breath.

Anyone who is to travel with KOSMAR is taking a mighty risk. Flight timings often change and at no notice. KOSMAR have a habit of stopping off at regional UK airports and stopping at another Greek destination before your chosen holiday resort, for example:

1. Board the aircraft at Bristol thinking you are flying to Crete

2. Collect passengers at East Midlands or Newcastle

3. Stop off in Santorini to off load Santorini bound tourists

4. Fly to Crete

Accommodation can be changed at no notice, which is their right believe it or not! And, they (KOSMAR) do not need to tell you of any unscheduled pick ups at Regional airports or other Greek Islands as it is a direct flight, "direct flight" because you do not get off. Working on this KOSMAR logic, if I take a Taxi to Bath from Bristol and the Taxi driver chooses to drive to Dundee first, collect a passenger and drop him/her off in Chelmsford in Essex and I dont get out of the taxi because he will not allow me to and he then drives to Bath in order to drop me off I would have no right of complain as it was a direct drive, presedence set by KOSMAR! Add to this that the Taxi driver need not tell me of the Dundee/Essex de-tour ................Hey presto welcome to the topsy turvey world of KOSMAR and lunacy!

I had 7 or 8 years of holidays with KOSMAR and in 2005 flew from Bristol to Crete via Santorini, 7 hours in total on a dirty Excel aircraft which had no in flight entertainment, a cold "cooked" breakfast and less than helpful cabin crew who wanted to issue the breakfast and sell Duty Free before leaving British Air Space.

When I wrote on return post holiday to ask why I had not been notified of a 7 hour flight I received a hand written response saying; "we dont need to tell you", when I telephoned to speak to a Manager I was told that I could "speak to James Bond", then the phone was hung up! Only way was to vote with my feet, this year I am going with Manos at a few quid more but I do have piece of mind!

borismab

Just been notified by thomas cook, that kosmar have cancelled flying out of stansted to corfu this summer, so we have had to switch to birmingham.

Pippa

Personally I wouldn't use Kosmar again - had flights cancelled and times changed on a few occasions - does put you off a company.

And they really could not care less, they have your dosh and thats enough. I think if they were challenged correctly the smaller than normal print they choose to quote would not be worth the paper its written on! Boris, Pippa, you have my sympathy!

Cancelled flying out of Stanstead eh, what they meant to say was that they didnt wish to pay airport charges for Stanstead when flying out of Birmingham as they go about their Regional airport pick ups, and why should they when they can get you their customer (who incidentally pays KOSMAR wages) to drive long distances to meet the ever changing and dubious KOSMAR method of doing business. Afraid to say it but KOSMAR have got away with illegal/imoral act after illegal/imoral act for too many years and its only in this country where we accept such rubbish as the norm that they could get away with it!

Anyone taking a KOSMAR holiday in this day and age are really taking a huge risk, their performance, no notice changes and atrocious handling of the paying customer are going to get worse, I could write the script now for the KOSMAR related posts on this Board come September 06.

Those who so far have not been "KOSMARED", its only a matter of time, your amazing good luck will not hold out for ever!

Grecophile Wrote:

Almost always use Kosmar for Greek holidays, never had a problem with flight time changes, accommodation always acceptable, prices reasonable, would recommend over other so called Greece experts.

cejay8 Wrote:

I've travelled with Kosmar to Santorini and Kefalonia (and next year booked for Zante). The prices are hard to beat, and we've never had any flight changes or problems - I'd definately recommend them. Cejay

Really Grecophile and cejay8, when I travelled with KOSMAR to Skiathos in May 2002 the flight time changed 3 times in as many weeks. When travelling to Santorini in July 2002 the flight time changed by 12 hours 10 days before and I was bumped off the Bristol flight and had to fly from Gatwick. In June 2004 I boarded the aircraft at Bristol bound for "Crete" at 0920, eventually took off at 1010 hours for the East Midlands airport to pick up 14 passengers, left East Midlands at 1135 and arrived in Santorini to drop off the same 14 passengers at 1450 hours, took off for Crete at 1550 hours and landed at Chania at 1625 hours. Hmmmmmmmn, let me see, with my basic grasp of maths thats over 7 hours cooped up in an Excel aircraft on what ought to have been a 4 hour flight with a strong head wind!

I would not, nay could not "recommend" them or their carriers to anyone!

Me I hear you ask, I now travel with "other so called Greek experts", MANOS who do cost a few quid extra, MANOS have yet to tamper with flight times or sell flight slots off to a higher bidder, MANOS have not bumped me off a flight I paid for 7 months previously, MANOS do not fly to Crete via the Regional airports of UK filling up seats as they go, MANOS do not Greek Island hop to my holiday destination, MANOS provide an aircraft which is clean, MANOS have in flight entertainment and MANOS have yet to have Cabin Crew who roll their eyes and tut when you hand them back a partially cooked breakfast!

Pssst, Grecophile and ceejay8, do you really believe what you posted, can you honestly say that KOSMAR are better value for money (cheapest is seldom best and of course "by cheap pay twice"), have you always been satisfied with the state of an Excel aircraft, have you not noticed the Excel Cabin Crew haste to issue breakfast and sell drinks before leaving British air space in order that they can spend the rest of the flight presumably gossiping etc? Just take a look at this board and many others, there are too many horror stories and in every case the paying customer of KOSMAR has been treated shabbily, almost to the point of KOSMAR taking the proverbial. One day Grecophile and ceejay8, and probably soon considering the state KOSMAR is in and considering the performance of Excel your turn will come, I really hope it doesnt happen as it sets the holiday off on a poor footing but I reckon disatisfaction with KOSMAR is as sure as President Blair telling fibs!

Hi denzil,

So sorry you were KOSMARED. I was told by a Travel Agent associate that it is common practice to declare "selected" accommodation as full when it clearly is not and its not only KOSMAR who do it, I suffered at the hands of Thomson in June last year in a similar manner but my alternative accommodation was very good!

I do suppose that because of my last posts some will think I have declared a personal war on KOSMAR, nothing could be further than the truth. Quite simply they are not the most honest of organisations and they will do literally nothing for their customer once they have banked your money and this Board is really the only way that frustrations can be vented!

They feel safe in the knowledge that for every disatisfied KOSMAR customer who leaves there are more who will take his/her place because of their "greater value for money" (cheapness) and they are to a certain extent correct, this Risk Analysis which forms the KOSMAR strategy does seem to be slipping a touch though.

Their Business Plan clearly included X amount of aircraft to deliver X amount of people to X. By reducing the amount of aircraft they can Island hop and pick up at Regional airports. By putting you and many others in inferior accommodation they pay the owner less than they would the owner of better standard accommodation, the owners of pensions/studios etc are getting ripped off too.............ask them when next in Greece!

Why else would they over the last 3 years cut down on the number of aircraft used and pick up at several regional UK airports, why else would they fly the same aircraft to different mainland and Island airports on the one outward leg. Why else would their primary carrier (Excel) amend their flight programme so frequently and so inconviniently, is it because they opt for the cheapest slot, why else would KOSMAR have chosen to Excel, a carrier which has had so many adverse comments. Just look at all the Holiday Reviews and see if BA, Monarch, Flying Colours, My Travel, Thomsons, Virgin etc have had the same bad press as Excel!

There has been some mention on this Board that the Excel takeover may improve matters ......................really! Lets not forget that all the rude KOSMAR UK based staff have TUPE rights and will now be wearing the Excel uniform, they will bring with them the KOSMAR culture of we really dont give a stuff!

The KOSMAR small print you refer to could and would have been beaten in court had you had the funds and the time (2 years at least) to challenge them, the challenge based on the Sale Of Goods Act (SOGA) , this simply states that you were not given the goods (in this case the holiday) that was advertised and bought or that which you might reasonably expect based on what you were sold at the Travel Agents! Lets not forget, they (KOSMAR) told you lies, the accommodation you initially booked was not full!

I wish you all the best with your next holiday, hope it goes well.

Bob

Greekofile wrote in Jan 06:

Hi
we've been with Kosmar many times and going again in June.
Never had a bad deal. Some of the flights are 'Iffy' but for the price you can't complain. Their accomodation has always been acceptable and never needed to complain about the standard.
Good luck inTurkey it's a while since we went their.

Greekofile then wrote in Mar 06:

Just received my final invoice for Myrtos departing Manchester 2nd June 2006 and flights have changed from 2100 hours to 2245 hours. The knock on effect is that we do not leave Crete until 0545 hrs!
Kosmar tell me that Excel Airways have only just told them of the change of schedule>

I see you have been KOSMARED there Greekofile, revised flight is a bit more than "iffy" if you ask me, but "for the price you can't complain"! Is the 0545 hrs "knock on effect" a complaint or just an ah well "for the price you can't complain"!

Not to worry, I reckon in the coming months there will be many more adverse KOSMAR comments and very fewer worshipping at the KOSMAR alter.

Just to reply to Craven:
I choose value for money not cheap. I've had value for money at £'s less and £'s more.
I understand where you're coming from and if I'm Kosmared as you call it I will respond accordingley.
As for Manos I find them more expensive and no better value for money AND they don't go where I want to any more. Perhaps I'll go flight only in future!

Greekofile,

VFM is not always the cheapest and I have to say that KOSMAR are probably the cheapest! My personal view is that VFM includes:

1. A direct flight (pick ups at UK regional airports and Greek Island hopping will cause me to reject the service provider)

2. A Clean aircraft (In almost every Excel flight I have experienced poor standards of cleaning and too much debris, food stuffs, yesterdays newspapers etc)

3. A good reactive customer service (being asked if I would like to speak to James Bond and then having the telephone put down on me is not good customer service in my book, others may well be easily pleased or used to such treatment)

4. In flight entertainment (A factor, but not a major governing factor)

5. Getting to resort with minimum fuss (Sorry, I reckon its about to be a nightmare for those travelling to West Crete, a landing at Heraklion after possible pick ups at regional airports in the UK, Island hopping to Volos, Santorini etc are an Excel/KOSMAR characteristic and after all that there may be 3 or 4 hours cooped up in a transfer coach ........................ I would rather eat my own liver. People may be spending 36 hours travelling on a 7 day holiday)

Sad to say that in my experience KOSMAR/Excel fall down on all 5 of the above.

I suppose its a case of how we each view what good/reasonable/high standards ought to be, I like to treat people in business in exactly the same way I expect to treated.

Craven
guess there's no convincing you that some people haven't had the raw deal you appear to have. As I said If I get a raw deal I'll stand my ground with the tour operators. I've had to do it in the past (and won) and I am not averes to doing it again. I'll let you know in June how it went and if my opinion has changed.
I will not be averes to apologising if you're proved right.