hi all
can anybody tell me if the no smoking law introduced in spain from
the first of january applies in the canary islands.
I've made this topic a sticky for now but will unstick in due course.
I've done this to try and avoid repetion of the question on the smoking ban occurring.
allmen
Yes there is a smoking ban, but it is a bit confusing, as far as i know, bars and restaurants larger than 100 square metres must have non-smoking sections. smaller than 100sq metres can choose to be smoking or non smoking, depending on the owner, does anyone know different?
Yes, as a non-smoker, I'm delighted to report that the smoking ban also applies in the Canary Islands ... what a joy to be able to sit in an internet cafe without cigarette smoke all around me!
But just think, it's not such a hardship for smokers though standing outside for a smoke as the weather here is so much better than in Northern Europe!
Arona1 - that's my understanding too ... 100sq m applies to mainland Spain as well
But just think, it's not such a hardship for smokers though standing outside for a smoke as the weather here is so much better than in Northern Europe!
Arona1 - that's my understanding too ... 100sq m applies to mainland Spain as well
For those interested in seeing what is involved in the new laws regarding the banning of smoking in Spain use this link and see how it affects everybody.
The bit I found interesting is this
The bit I found interesting is this
Owners of bars, cafes and restaurants under 100m2 can decide whether or not to allow smoking on the premises. Shops, supermarkets, newsagents (kioscos) etc. are no longer authorised to sell cigarettes, cigars or tobacco. The only establishments allowed to sell tobacco are licensed estancos, the traditional stamp and cigarette shops in Spain.
THE SMOKING BAN CAME INTO iRELAND AMIDST ALL SORTS OF RUBBISH ABOUT EVERYTHING CLOSING DOWN.
Sorry about the capitals.
Remember that approx. 70% of the population are non smoking. I expect Spain is the same.
In Ireland the smoking ban is a complete sucess, even with smokers, at this stage.
The law states that where people are employed, smoking is not allowed. I understand that there are some exceptions. Portions of mental hospitals and certain hotel rooms.
We should remember that on certain beaches in Australia, smoking is forbidden. My wife was in Canada recently. Smoking was forbidden where food was served and even where there was a board walk outside, smoking was forbidden, within perhaps 30 meters.
What a great idea for Spain,
Regards,
Billyboy.
Sorry about the capitals.
Remember that approx. 70% of the population are non smoking. I expect Spain is the same.
In Ireland the smoking ban is a complete sucess, even with smokers, at this stage.
The law states that where people are employed, smoking is not allowed. I understand that there are some exceptions. Portions of mental hospitals and certain hotel rooms.
We should remember that on certain beaches in Australia, smoking is forbidden. My wife was in Canada recently. Smoking was forbidden where food was served and even where there was a board walk outside, smoking was forbidden, within perhaps 30 meters.
What a great idea for Spain,
Regards,
Billyboy.
other way round in Tenerife. 80% smoke!Remember that approx. 70% of the population are non smoking. I expect Spain is the same
With regard to Almen's post in the locked thread... The "Offical Tobac" shops the article referred to are not present on the Canaries as we enjoy "Duty Free status". So the rule stating that only official government outlets can sell ciggies does not apply here, otherwise no one would be able to buy any!
I have read a post on another site regarding this new law and wondered if it is going to affect me taking my children into the usual bars we visit in pdla. Our children love the nightlife as much as us and it could spoil our holiday if they stop children going into certain bars. Does anyone have anymore info on this please? thanks j.
Remember that approx. 70% of the population are non smoking. I expect Spain is the same.
No !!!!
What a great idea for Spain,
No!!!!
THE SMOKING BAN CAME INTO iRELAND AMIDST ALL SORTS OF RUBBISH ABOUT EVERYTHING CLOSING DOWN.
Sorry, but if you speak to people who live in Ireland and not what the government propaganda tells you, then you will find that
1. Some pubs have gone out of business
2. Off- licences are doing a roaring trade.
3. People stay at home to smoke and drink
4. The community spirit has been eradicated by people not going to the pub anymore.
Unlike Ireland, nearly 40% of Spains economy depends on tourism.
How come that for years we have been told to eat a healthy mediterranean diet because they live longer, blah blah blah....the fact that they finish off the meal with a glass of wine and a cigarette or a big fat cuban cigar was ignored, until now.?
That is because, Spain along with France, has been the biggest receiver of E.E.C. funds since joining and now Brussels has told them, that they have had the money and must now start to enforce health issues, especially if they want any more.....and smoking is a token gesture, cos everyone is on the backs of the smokers at this moment in time.....
Spain would be better off looking at its record of animal cruelty, and exploitation of its workers as well.!!
We should remember that on certain beaches in Australia, smoking is forbidden.
We should remember that smokers keep the ecomony healthy from the tax that is paid on every packet of cigarettes.
Why should smokers be made to feel like lepers? Tobacco is NOT an illegal drug, it is sold and profit made from its sale for the respective governments..
Yes, I can appreciate than a none-smoker will find this disgusting habit unbearable, but civil liberties apply to everyone and designated areas should be created for smokers.
We don`t make an alchoholic who is sat next to me, shouting, swearing, burping and farting go outside to drink, and one wrong word could result in having a bottle or a glass smashed in your face.....or the fat person who needs their seat and half of mine on an aeroplane pay for 2 seats....and just to put the record straight, obesity and obesity related problems are the biggest drain on the NHS. Fact !!!!
He/she seriously damages my health.!!!!...
I`ve just returned from mainland Spain, and was actually there when my hotel went overnight into a none smoking hotel on the 1st Jan, and I can tell you that the bar taking in that hotel went down 40% overnight.....
By the time I left Spain on the 7th Jan, those hotels were now creating designated areas for smokers.
if there`s one thing Spaniards love...it`s money.!!!!Just remember this......
Besos xxx
Sanji
Well said Sanji.
Neither my wife or myself smoke but neither of us mind other people smoking in bars as long as the air conditioning is good and we are not eating. Obviously in Tenerife bars, most of the windows are open most of the time anyway.
It would be a great shame to see a lot of really good bars in Tenerife become quieter or even close because of this ban.
I am sure there will be people who disagree with me but that's life!!
Nigel
Neither my wife or myself smoke but neither of us mind other people smoking in bars as long as the air conditioning is good and we are not eating. Obviously in Tenerife bars, most of the windows are open most of the time anyway.
It would be a great shame to see a lot of really good bars in Tenerife become quieter or even close because of this ban.
I am sure there will be people who disagree with me but that's life!!
Nigel
You are quiet correct when you say that takings in pubs has reduced since the smoking ban came in.
In Ireland, that is.
Consumption in pubs was in downward trend since before the smoking ban in. Customers complain that drink in pubs is too expensive. Another reason for the fall in drink sales are the current anti drink driving laws. At present the authorities are discussing how to bring in laws, which will permit random testing for drink driving. When this happens, publicans will also blame the anti smoking laws.
Ireland like the U.K. appears to have been on a drinking binge, in recent years. Is it a bad thing, if this trend is reversed? Smoking is also in decline, as a result of the anti smoking ban. Is this a bad thing?
I have read that in the U.K. staff which deal with the public, like in travel agents, are now been hired on their non smoking status. Similar with taxi drivers. I had business with a young lady in an insurance office recently.she reeked of cigerette fumes. Remember the advertisment, like kissing an ash tray!
Have to go,
Regards,
Billyboy.
In Ireland, that is.
Consumption in pubs was in downward trend since before the smoking ban in. Customers complain that drink in pubs is too expensive. Another reason for the fall in drink sales are the current anti drink driving laws. At present the authorities are discussing how to bring in laws, which will permit random testing for drink driving. When this happens, publicans will also blame the anti smoking laws.
Ireland like the U.K. appears to have been on a drinking binge, in recent years. Is it a bad thing, if this trend is reversed? Smoking is also in decline, as a result of the anti smoking ban. Is this a bad thing?
I have read that in the U.K. staff which deal with the public, like in travel agents, are now been hired on their non smoking status. Similar with taxi drivers. I had business with a young lady in an insurance office recently.she reeked of cigerette fumes. Remember the advertisment, like kissing an ash tray!
Have to go,
Regards,
Billyboy.
I was just reading about this subject on http://www.canarianweekly.com.
This is such an emotive subject.
I am an anti smoker and always laugh when this subject is brought up...especially now that it also affects holidays because somehow a smoker can survive a 4 hour flight without smoking but can't survive a 1-2 hour visit to a pub !!! does not compute. Atleast they can leave a pub for a quick fag.
I have a 16 month old son and look forward to him being able to go out for a meal with us and not have his tiny lungs filled with second hand smoke, hopefully his generation when they grow up, will not have the same craving for fags.
As for Sanjis comments
1. Some pubs have gone out of business
Some would have gone out of business anyway.
2. Off- licences are doing a roaring trade.
This makes up for the loss in jobs through pubs closing.
3. People stay at home to smoke and drink
This makes everone happy. Smokers can smoke as much as they want, non smokers get smoke free pubs. BUT also DIY stores will increase business (helps jobs with all those pubs closing) as the smokers will need to decorate the yellow walls more often.
4. The community spirit has been eradicated by people not going to the pub anymore. I think you should find more people who hated going to pubs of a night because you get home and have to have a shower before going to bed and have to wash ALL clothes you wore to the pub. I think you will find more families going to pubs as the atmosphere is more child friendly and families are the key part of communities becasue without them the population will drop.
Some of this post is written toungue in cheek but if the governments didn't have support from the public they would not have put this in place.
Final point is
In an enclosed space smokers can choose to breathe non smokers fresh air but non smokers don't have that same luxtury and have to breathe in the tar.
I am an anti smoker and always laugh when this subject is brought up...especially now that it also affects holidays because somehow a smoker can survive a 4 hour flight without smoking but can't survive a 1-2 hour visit to a pub !!! does not compute. Atleast they can leave a pub for a quick fag.
I have a 16 month old son and look forward to him being able to go out for a meal with us and not have his tiny lungs filled with second hand smoke, hopefully his generation when they grow up, will not have the same craving for fags.
As for Sanjis comments
1. Some pubs have gone out of business
Some would have gone out of business anyway.
2. Off- licences are doing a roaring trade.
This makes up for the loss in jobs through pubs closing.
3. People stay at home to smoke and drink
This makes everone happy. Smokers can smoke as much as they want, non smokers get smoke free pubs. BUT also DIY stores will increase business (helps jobs with all those pubs closing) as the smokers will need to decorate the yellow walls more often.
4. The community spirit has been eradicated by people not going to the pub anymore. I think you should find more people who hated going to pubs of a night because you get home and have to have a shower before going to bed and have to wash ALL clothes you wore to the pub. I think you will find more families going to pubs as the atmosphere is more child friendly and families are the key part of communities becasue without them the population will drop.
Some of this post is written toungue in cheek but if the governments didn't have support from the public they would not have put this in place.
Final point is
In an enclosed space smokers can choose to breathe non smokers fresh air but non smokers don't have that same luxtury and have to breathe in the tar.
I have never smoked, but unfortunately I suffer really badly with asthma. It has never stopped me from going out into bars etc. to enjoy myself, but for people like me this will probably be a bonus.
It was obvious that a topic such as this one, would attract the pro-smokers and anti-smokers, and regardless of what has happened in Ireland this particular topic is about Spain.
But, before I discuss the implications of this ban on the economy of Spain...here are my personal views about pubs, restaurants and children.
I am old enough to remember, when pubs were places that dad went for a pint of beer, he didn`t drag his children by his side to babysit them, playing in a created childrens area, while he got his beer down his neck.
He didn`t/couldn`t buy us a meal, because quite frankly, they didn`t serve food and children were not allowed over the pub doorstep, and IMO this is how it should be today.
The pub also had a "snug" and a "best side"....and in the "snug" you would find smokers... the "best side" would be occupied by couples, the average man taking his wife/partner out for the night, yes here you could smoke as well, but all it needed was for smoking to be banned in that side.
A restaurant is the place where he took us as a family to have an enjoyable meal......the two were kept separate and if he wanted a smoke (which he didn`t) then he would have booked a smoking table in a segregated designated area of that restaurant.
What you have to realise is...that tobacco is more addictive than heroin, and just like junkies, smokers can go a certain length of time before the next "fix"...but unlike heroin, tobacco addiction is a social habit.
I know people who do not touch a cigarette all day, but they associate having a cig with a drink or a meal, and after sitting down with their pint of beer/wine or finishing the meal.... will then light up.!
I personally, have no problem with appreciating that people have the right not to breathe in a smokers toxic fumes, but I do have a problem that they are forced outside an establishment, instead of a segregated, designated area being created for them inside.
And returning to the issue in Spain......
If I have paid the same amount of money as you, to go to a hotel, then that hotel should cater for my needs, which may be smoking.!
The fact that they have not spent the money on creating areas, installing efficient and effective smoke extractors, is not my problem
You go into any Spanish bar (not a restaurant) and you will see Senors propping up the bar smoking....what you will rarely see is women and children with them.
When the Spanish go out for a family meal, then the people who smoke normally wait until the meal is over, the children have left the table and obviously because of the climate, 9 out of 12 months of the year, they are eating outside.
For the people who work in Spanish offices and other public places, then I can see the benefits of this ban, but considering nearly 40% of Spains economy depends on tourists and tourists from ALL parts of the world smoke, then some sort of a compromise must be achieved to stop the effect that this ban will have on their economy.
The people who take an active part in reading about what is going off in Spain, will tell you that this ban was NOT welcomed, it has been forced upon them by Brussels. 
The law (as I read it is this)...
Any establishment 100 mtres Square or less, has the option to go smoking or none- smoking.
If they decide to go smoking, then children under the age of 16 are not allowed in that establishment.
They must display a sign no smaller than A3 size stating that they are a no-smoking establishment or visa versa.
Establishments over 100 mtrs sq...they can either go totally none-smoking OR create a designated area for smokers, that must comply with certain rules IE: it must be partitioned off and enclosed, none smokers must not have to walk through that area to go to the toilet for example.
They have until August to put planning permission into the respective town halls and start the work once permission has been granted.
I witnessed first hand the drop in clients on the 1st Jan, and therefore the bar takings dropped in my no-smoking hotel ...and within days it got worse.
The Director of that hotel was adamant that his hotel would stay a no-smoking hotel....but 5 days later when he looked at his bar takings, he then said that they were now thinking about creating an area.
Money talks....and away from the tourist traps, the average Spaniard could`nt give a
about Brussels....just a pity we don`t tell them to take a hike as well.!!!!!
If you look at the British constitution, then you will see that Brussels writes or dictates our laws.!!!
besos xxx
Sanji
But, before I discuss the implications of this ban on the economy of Spain...here are my personal views about pubs, restaurants and children.
I am old enough to remember, when pubs were places that dad went for a pint of beer, he didn`t drag his children by his side to babysit them, playing in a created childrens area, while he got his beer down his neck.
He didn`t/couldn`t buy us a meal, because quite frankly, they didn`t serve food and children were not allowed over the pub doorstep, and IMO this is how it should be today.
The pub also had a "snug" and a "best side"....and in the "snug" you would find smokers... the "best side" would be occupied by couples, the average man taking his wife/partner out for the night, yes here you could smoke as well, but all it needed was for smoking to be banned in that side.
A restaurant is the place where he took us as a family to have an enjoyable meal......the two were kept separate and if he wanted a smoke (which he didn`t) then he would have booked a smoking table in a segregated designated area of that restaurant.
somehow a smoker can survive a 4 hour flight without smoking but can't survive a 1-2 hour visit to a pub
What you have to realise is...that tobacco is more addictive than heroin, and just like junkies, smokers can go a certain length of time before the next "fix"...but unlike heroin, tobacco addiction is a social habit.
I know people who do not touch a cigarette all day, but they associate having a cig with a drink or a meal, and after sitting down with their pint of beer/wine or finishing the meal.... will then light up.!
I personally, have no problem with appreciating that people have the right not to breathe in a smokers toxic fumes, but I do have a problem that they are forced outside an establishment, instead of a segregated, designated area being created for them inside.
And returning to the issue in Spain......
If I have paid the same amount of money as you, to go to a hotel, then that hotel should cater for my needs, which may be smoking.!
The fact that they have not spent the money on creating areas, installing efficient and effective smoke extractors, is not my problem
You go into any Spanish bar (not a restaurant) and you will see Senors propping up the bar smoking....what you will rarely see is women and children with them.
When the Spanish go out for a family meal, then the people who smoke normally wait until the meal is over, the children have left the table and obviously because of the climate, 9 out of 12 months of the year, they are eating outside.
For the people who work in Spanish offices and other public places, then I can see the benefits of this ban, but considering nearly 40% of Spains economy depends on tourists and tourists from ALL parts of the world smoke, then some sort of a compromise must be achieved to stop the effect that this ban will have on their economy.
The people who take an active part in reading about what is going off in Spain, will tell you that this ban was NOT welcomed, it has been forced upon them by Brussels.
The law (as I read it is this)...
Any establishment 100 mtres Square or less, has the option to go smoking or none- smoking.
If they decide to go smoking, then children under the age of 16 are not allowed in that establishment.
They must display a sign no smaller than A3 size stating that they are a no-smoking establishment or visa versa.
Establishments over 100 mtrs sq...they can either go totally none-smoking OR create a designated area for smokers, that must comply with certain rules IE: it must be partitioned off and enclosed, none smokers must not have to walk through that area to go to the toilet for example.
They have until August to put planning permission into the respective town halls and start the work once permission has been granted.
I witnessed first hand the drop in clients on the 1st Jan, and therefore the bar takings dropped in my no-smoking hotel ...and within days it got worse.
The Director of that hotel was adamant that his hotel would stay a no-smoking hotel....but 5 days later when he looked at his bar takings, he then said that they were now thinking about creating an area.
Money talks....and away from the tourist traps, the average Spaniard could`nt give a
about Brussels....just a pity we don`t tell them to take a hike as well.!!!!! if the governments didn't have support from the public they would not have put this in place.
If you look at the British constitution, then you will see that Brussels writes or dictates our laws.!!!
besos xxx
Sanji
-
Edited by
Sanji
2006-01-16 17:05:14
I'm,in fact,not against smokers in any way.I think it must be one of the most really difficult to give up,like anything is that we enjoy.It will be beneficial to all those with related health problems,though.My dad and Grandad both died from heart disease and lung cancer,due to years of heavy smoking....Sanji has made some very valid points,it's always going to be a difficult one.
Hi Sanji,
I'm not sure who's right here, you or Canarian Weekly, but here's what they have to say;
Owners of premises of under 100m2 who have chosen to allow smoking must clearly display the decision in writing on all entrances and in all publicity related to the premises. Children ARE allowed to enter these premises
Catherine
I'm not sure who's right here, you or Canarian Weekly, but here's what they have to say;
Owners of premises of under 100m2 who have chosen to allow smoking must clearly display the decision in writing on all entrances and in all publicity related to the premises. Children ARE allowed to enter these premises
Catherine
Hi Catherine.
I can only state what I have read and what actually happened on 1st Jan in mainland Spain.
I can tell you that confusion reigned in the resort, even though the Spanish knew it was coming, but because smoking is built into their culture, I guess some just didn`t want to believe it would happen, and therefore they were not prepared.
From the 1st Jan until the 7th when I left Spain, things changed everyday...literally by the hour.!!!
I can honestly say that I saw/read smoking signs displayed on premises doors/windows stating that smoking was allowed and underneath it...no children under the age of 16 allowed in.
I must also say at this point, that the age of allowing the purchase of tobacco has also risen from 16 yrs to 18 years old.
I can only assume that those bars that come under the catorgary of a "bigger bar" have not done the building work inside to segregate the smokers, and comply with the law....so...to stay within the law until such work is complete, then they may be keeping children out.
I know that some bar owners are "seeing how it goes" before spending money on such things as extractor fans, which don`t come cheap.!
So, in all honesty, at this moment in time.....I wouldn`t like to say, because the law is being interpreted differently, depending on which part of Spain you research.
besos xxx
SanJi
I can only state what I have read and what actually happened on 1st Jan in mainland Spain.
I can tell you that confusion reigned in the resort, even though the Spanish knew it was coming, but because smoking is built into their culture, I guess some just didn`t want to believe it would happen, and therefore they were not prepared.
From the 1st Jan until the 7th when I left Spain, things changed everyday...literally by the hour.!!!
I can honestly say that I saw/read smoking signs displayed on premises doors/windows stating that smoking was allowed and underneath it...no children under the age of 16 allowed in.
I must also say at this point, that the age of allowing the purchase of tobacco has also risen from 16 yrs to 18 years old.
Owners of smaller Spanish restaurants and bars can decide whether to allow smoking, but have to display a sign stating clearly whether their establishment is smoke-free.
Bigger bars and restaurants have eight months to set up smoking areas that are sealed and have their own ventilation systems. Minors will not be allowed to enter these areas, which cannot take up more than 30 percent of the total floor space.
I can only assume that those bars that come under the catorgary of a "bigger bar" have not done the building work inside to segregate the smokers, and comply with the law....so...to stay within the law until such work is complete, then they may be keeping children out.
I know that some bar owners are "seeing how it goes" before spending money on such things as extractor fans, which don`t come cheap.!
So, in all honesty, at this moment in time.....I wouldn`t like to say, because the law is being interpreted differently, depending on which part of Spain you research.
besos xxx
SanJi
I think we can all agree with the last statement
Please lets keep this topic going as friendly as it is now and if any of our residents in Tenerife can help keep us up to date on how it is working (or not) please do as I've no doubt it will not stop the majority of us coming to the island smoker or non-smoker.
until the dust (or should that be smoke?) settles down it maybe all this is superfluous as the Spanish no doubt will adjust to the new law, as have the Irish, or do something about changing it.it just seems like a minefield!
Please lets keep this topic going as friendly as it is now and if any of our residents in Tenerife can help keep us up to date on how it is working (or not) please do as I've no doubt it will not stop the majority of us coming to the island smoker or non-smoker.
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