I suspect the Embassy won't be very definative on this even if they do answer.

Based on my experience of Swiss attitudes my gut feeling is that they would be more accepting of adults refusing treatment for themselves but follow British practise for kids.

The best way to be sure would be for the parents to contact someone in Switzerland through the church organisation and ask them. If you chase the embassy/ tourist office and they give you the wrong info it could end up being a big problem for you. On a personal level, are you prepared to act as legal guardian and allow the kid to die?

This particular trip is not mine so the problem will not arise for me this time. However I do take trips in the UK and abroad and so this situation could arise. I am the trips co-ordinator for my school and am trying to get everything in black and white for the adults on the trip, some of whom are not happy with the situation.

As the 'adult in charge' all I can do is communicate the wishes of parents to the Doctors and then let them treat as they see fit. Their professional judgement would outrank mine in that sort of situation. I would be obliged to give consent (if it was needed) to any procedures that they saw fit to use to save life. Of course in reality we would most likely have the parents on the phone talking to the doctors so we would effectivly be out of the loop.

Of course in an extreme situation such as a coach crash the adults on the trip may not be in a position to be supervising treatment in which case the doctors would just treat everyone regardless.

This is a really difficult one Hi Di Hi and I don't envy you or the other staff, potentially it's a minefield. I agree with Steve, I think the onus should be on the parents to determine what course of action would be taken by the Swiss should the situation arise. Just as we have legal DNR (do not resusitate) orders here, perhaps they need to have something prepared for the child to keep on them, that would be handed to the doctors in the event of an accident. Alternatively the child could wear a medic alert bracelet, which would let medical staff know the situation if no-one was fit to inform them.
I can understand the staff not being happy, it's a huge responsibility to put on them. At the end of the day unless the parents are totally happy for someone to be in loco parentis ,given their beliefs, the child either has to not go or a parent needs to be with them.

Good luck, let us know the outcome. I've had many a discussion on the doorstep on this issue!!(all be it short!!)

Pam

We had a meeting with the child's parents yesterday.

According to her mother doctors will now honour any wishes of the parent and child. Something to do with the International f the child act! We didn't argue but we have documents from the NHS that state that in the UK, in the event of a JW child needing blood products the doctors will treat as they see fit regardless of what the parents say and that they will go to the courts to back them up in this.

The child does carry a card (apparently) that not only says what treatments are banned by her religeon but also lists alternative treatments that can be used instead. However the parents agreed that in the event that we have to take the child to hospital all we have to do is show them the consent form that the parents have filled in and then we let the doctors decide what to do. The mother signed a document to say that she understood this agreement. However as a parting shot she said that in the event something happened she would phone the Swiss branch of the Church and they would be round to the hospital as fast as they could to 'protect' the child!

Sounds like you've done all you possibly can- in this situation it's bizarre that what you are actually needing to do is 'protect' yourselves, not the child, since due to their religion the parents are actually prepared for their child to die rather than receive treatment if it involves blood products.
I hope you and your staff feel happier now- sounds like should anything happen, it will all be taken out of your hands anyway. Hope the trip goes smoothly.

Pam

Hi Hi De Hi!

I'm glad you've got the outlines of a solution, but I sincerely hope that nothing arises that requires you and the child to seek medical help.

I think you've done everything you possibly can, and no blame can be laid at your door if the worst happens.

Sometimes religious faith and commonsense get ensnarled for the worse - in all religions.

All the very best to you, and here's to a trip full of success and happiness and no pitfalls.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

We did make a point of saying that in the event of a really serious incident (such as a bus crash) the staff in charge may not actually be in a position to let the doctors know about her daughter's wishes and so everyone would get whatever treatment the doctors decided without any consultation. She seemed fine with that. Well we have done all we could and as was said earleir it was an exercise to protect the staff from legal action rather than to protect the child who as far as we can tell will get whatever treatment she might need regardless.