Hi folks just like to add my experience from this year so very sad & disappointed.I have been going over twice a year for 8 years for a month each time.Been using the same guy to rent a private flat in alor grande for past 5 years.Been great up until now,came back from beach on last day to find my room had been robbed.now Goa regulars know the size of the padlocks on the doors in most places but believe it or not mine had been completely cut off with I imagine must have been a giant pair of bolt cutters although my apartment was private it is still part of hotel complex but my lanlord was nowhere to be found & the hotel manager wouldn't call the police then he disappeared when I said I would call them myself.Although this happened probably late afternoon & the hotel has at least a dozen security guards no one heard anything.I was so upset as until this year I have always felt very safe & sometimes even go on my own for a holiday.Im afraid those days are long gone now.Have seen a lot of not so good changes over the years but this year really took the wind from my sails.I dont think I will be going back as I refuse to spend time & money anywhere I dont feel safe.My daughter came with me the first time I went in 2000 when she was 14 I would not dream of allowing her to go now with or without me.I am very saddened by whats going on over there & hope sometime in the future Goa will return to its peaceful quaintness as before although I think there has been too much damage done....

In regards to Alan's previous post, we were in South Goa at the Club Mahindra and there were lots of Indian tourists. They were not allowed in the pool in their clothes and they had to wear bathing suits. There was no perving there. When we went to Candolim it was a different thing altogether, the men were taking pics of young girls who were just sunbathing in their bikinis. I think there are too many people on this forum making excuses for the perves! What ever religion or culture you may have there are basic moral codes that should be adhered to. There are no excuses for their dispicable behaviour.

I,m not trying to excuse their behaviour, merely to put it into context. As you say it seems to be mostly taking place on the beach rather than round the hotel pools Mostly I've found that there is few parts of the beaches, where everyone there, out of respect for the local culture and habits, all keep their tops on. This is just another example of two cultures colliding, India is not the Med, a few years ago visitors realised that, and acted accordingly, now however the attitude seems to be I'm on holiday there's no harm in it, until you get the reaction of the "pervy" local tourists, who equate this behaviour, as so shocking, that they treat the woman concerned the way they do. I in no way condone this way of acting, but if anyone who knows India will at least understand whats happening here. I'm afraid with the explosion of short stay local tourists having their first sight of foreign visitors and their habits, this problem will only worsen year on year, I fear there's no solution to it Alan

We should all remember that we are visitors in their country, so should be more sensitive to their culture. It is not for us to say how they should behave, don't visit these countries if you can't behave with some decorum. Of course Indian men are going to ogle naked girls, they never see their own women undressed on beaches. If these naked girls don't like being looked at then they should not visit these countries. If they took the trouble to read guide books they would see the recommendations re dress codes. It is this type of behaviour that has ruined Goa and made the locals despise and turn against the tourist, other than to see them as a meal ticket. I have always loved Goa, but after my most recent visit I am ashamed to say that we have ruined it.

Yes, a little respect goes a long way in India.

Peace

I have to agree with the last three posters. When I first went to Goa around 20 years ago, it seemed that most foreign visitors showed a little respect and didn't go topless, etc. I have felt a little uncomfortable on occasions, and have seen some young Indian men trying to take photos (and have been asked myself!). However, I also get that this might be akin to a free strip show for some of them from their culture, where this is so extremely opposite from they way Indian women may behave. Rightly or wrongly, conclusions can be drawn about someone's morals from the way they dress. People do the same at times in our own country too. I'm not saying the behaviour is right, but I can see where it comes from, especially if the people are just visiting the holiday area and haven't dealt personally with any foreign holidaymakers. They are applying stereotypes based on film/media and what they see in front of their eyes.

mmm i've only just read some of these threads and feel very sad as do a fair few of us! my son who is 21 was offered drugs every time he went out in December, he doesn't do drugs or smoke! he has been loads of times to Goa and is a rep so should be aware of whats what but he was really disappointed and couldnt understand what's changed over the last 2/3 years. He had the chance to work over there this winter and again next but don't think he will - that's very sad - i've been going since 1999 (kids as well until the last couple of years). I had my bag snatched and heard of loads of stories 1st and 2nd hand of crimes this year (not good). As I've said before - imo we've seen the best of Goa, i'm going south next time (probably for the last time).

Having been to Kerala before (a few years ago), I think we will give it another go this year. When we went before we liked it but preferred Goa. It was very much behind re catering for tourists and we felt rather limited with reataurants etc. However it is gradually expanding so we want to go again, before it too becomes ruined by, I have to admit, us. The more tourists the more commercialised it will become to meet their needs. The backwaters of Kerals are stunning, as is Cochin, but we will stay for the most part in Kovalem. The only issue when we were there was alcohol being prohibited in many restaurants. This was overcome, ammusingly, by bottled beer being served in tea-pots, or in brown paper bags which were placed discretely under the table!! I'm not sure who this was supposed to fool but it added to the charm of the place. I don't think/hope it will ever be a mass tourist destination because of issues like this, but who knows. India is such a poor country the locals will thrive on the extra income. A beach boy in Kovalem earns 10-15 rupees a day hod-carrying, approx £1.00 per week, labouring during the low season. When you see niaive tourists giving pound coins to the 'porters' at Goa airport for doing almost nothing, it puts it into perspective. This is why Goan's now see tourists as mugs and as a gullible meal ticket. If anyone has been watching the TV prog recently, re sweatshops in India making clothes, this also clarifies why many indian's migrate to Goa. Police pay large sums of money as a bribe to get a transfer to Goa from less affluent areas. This is to enable them to extort money from tourists and beach sellers. The 'porters' also pay bribes to have access to all the mugs arriving on planes from Europe. Corruption is rife throughout the country at every level, but more so in tourist areas. Sadly the Goa we have loved for years has gone forever, but I suppose I still can't say 'never' again, because who knows, but we will go to the south, Cavelossim again next time I expect.

respecting the people of this country is one thing alot of tourists have forgotten, ive seen women large and small walking up holiday street in bikinis throngs and bra top with nothing else on , even in the supermarket on bikes you name it and it really angers me, this is a sexually surpressed country and when men who never see womens bits stare its no wonder.
one of my friends who works at the ronil asked a guy to put his t shirt on while he was in the dining area and got a mouthful of abuse. yes it is a tourist place but it is also a deeply religous place so respect that and cover up

Poppetjay
I'm with you on this one, but unfortunately you will always get people who import their own values into whichever country they are visiting instead of respecting those of the country.

So, I'm afraid the scantily dressed females and bare chested blokes walking through the streets and topless women & thongs (both sexes) on the beach are in Goa to stay.

I suspect you've opened a whole can of worms with this one as there are people who violently disagree with this point of view.

Moles, I disagree with your statement that India is a poor country. India is certainly a country which has vast numbers of very poor people, but it also has a great deal of wealthy people. I would agree that there is probably a much larger gap between the rich and the poor than in any other country in the world. As a country India has nuclear weapons and efficient delivery systems for those weapons, it also has one of the largest armies in the world, and has recently announced that it is to buy hundreds of helicopters for all branches of its armed services. It has been improving its navy for a long time and now has one of the best navies in the world.

They have also stated that they intend to have manned space flight before long, something which no country in Europe has been able to do, it took an EEC consortium to achive space flight. India has vast mineral resources and if it were not for its military build up and its long running war with Pakistan, then India would be in a position to help fight the poverty of most of its population. Successive Indian Governemnts have simply preferred to spend the money elsewhere. Couple this with the endemic corruption of elected and Governement officials over the whole country and it is easy to see why India appears at first glance to be a poor country. Consider where the extremely wealthy Indian businessmen earned the money to allow them to buy the car and steel companies in the UK, and let's not forget Vijay Malia's distillery. They all without exception earned the start of their fortunes in India.

excellent report mardon
we also felt the same way about some of the things you experienced

we will go back though mainly as we take my mother in law & she loves it & also maybe because we are in our 40's & have a 66yr old lady in tow we dont encounter directly many of the things your group experienced although we do see it going on. we also tend to spend our time at quieter shacks and beaches i have to say on our last trip me & o/h were by ourselves and hired a scooter & went to the busy end for the first time after 4 goa holidays,(calangute & baga beaches ) and found it completely hideous - that is definately not what we call a nice beach, wall to wall sunbeds loud music and full on sell sell sell. thank god there is places you can still escape to.

I stand corrected sandyboy. I suppose I was generalising re the poverty in which many Indians live, with little state support. We don't tend to meet the affluent ones on holiday, unless they are also domestic tourists staying in our hotels, who I have to say, behave despicably toward lower caste indian workers - in our experience. There is truth in the saying 'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Police are also awful, yet somehow this corruption in the country is so endemic and 'normal' to indians, who don't seem to be as shocked by it as are tourists. They accept they have to pay off police and local mafia with no protest. Again, we are only visitors to their country, so it's not for us to dictate to them what is acceptable and what isn't.We should however respect their culture, 'when in Rome' and all that.
Politics aside, and getting back to the original thread topic, a lot has changed for the worse in Goa, and we too returned home a little sad. What was once a little bit of paradise, is no more.
See previous posts on this subject. However, time does heal and we are now not saying we won't ever return, as it still holds some charm and is excellent value for money compared to uk prices.

corrupt police are the worst nightmare but unfortunately this is encountered in not only 3rd world countries (africa to name one) but also in the uk & australia
sad!

I am sorry but saying the police in the UK are corrupt is very controversial and is entirely your opinion as I have never come across this in the UK. Are you from the UK?

I think poor Mardon's trip report has become hijacked a little. We aren't really here to discuss UK police so I'm going to lock for now. However, Mardon, if you wish to add any more to this thread just pm me and I'll certainly reopen it for you