Did they not have same insurance bought when they booked holiday? Might be worth your while having a word with your daughter's insurers for some advice. Actually just writing that, hope you get managed to get your second daughter insured, with all the hassle it may have been overlooked?

Lots of comments and advice. Some good and some not so. At the end of the day it is a matter to be sorted out between your daughter and her (ex) friend. All the views here are from strangers who do not have to live with the advice they give.

Nobody is sure if she has managed to get a doctors certificate, so that may have some bearing on the matter. Calls to insurers suggesting that she is not telling the truth if she makes a claim are dangerous things to do. They can come back and bite you, so I would suggest you forget that idea.

There are always two sides to a tale, when things quiet down you might get a proper story off this girl and her reasons for why she changed her mind.

fwh

Frankly I can't see legally that the friend has much chance of recovering her money( but I may be wrong). However, perhaps before things escalate and decisions are made in a hurry that are regretted later- have you thought about contacting her mum? You only have the girl's say so as to how her mum reacted. The girl sound extremely immature and may just have had a panic about going when she woke up. Perhaps the "adults" can put their heads together and work out something that both might agree upon.Your younger daughter has had a holiday. Why not calculate expenses, clothes, toiletries, spending money( and perhaps loss of earnings- did your daugher have a weekend or holiday job?) and also a portion for the fact your elder daughter would not have chosen to go away with a younger sister who is also not classed as an adult yet.
I take my hat off to your younger daughter. I can't imagine how I would reacted if I was told I had half an hour to pack and get myself ready for a holiday!!

Calls to insurers suggesting that she is not telling the truth if she makes a claim are dangerous things to do.

When I made the suggestion to the OP to contact the insurer, it wasn't with that in mind at all, more for advice on where she stood legally and if holiday had been cancelled by the 'friend' and her daughter had not travelled what would have happened (ie would daughter have been able to cancel without penalty). Just so that the OP has the facts straight should the 'friend' try to take things further.

I see where you're coming from and how you've taken it/read it but I certainly didn't make the suggestion with a view to OP calling the insurers to tell them she thought the 'friend' was lying - just to state the facts and ask what would have happened had her daughter not travelled.

There are always two sides to a tale, when things quiet down you might get a proper story off this girl and her reasons for why she changed her mind

I completely agree with this and as far as she is concerned she didn't go on holiday and so she shouldn't lose her money.

All I can say is that she stopped overnight in my house and did not request any medical attention, as far as I know they both slept well and it was at 6.10am, 5 mins before we were due to leave, that my daughter told me her friend said she didn't want to go. I spoke to her and asked what was wrong she said "I don't feel well" I asked what the matter was, she said "i just don't feel well." I said it was probably nerves and she said she had been feeling on and off unwell for a few months and was intending to go for tests. I suggested she get washed and ready and take her case downstairs and then we'll see how she is, she said "I know I will be ill". At this point I asked her had she spoken to her mother, she had not, I told her she should do this. Meanwhile i phoned Thomas Cook to enquire about a name change, the only way I could think of to salvage my daughter's holiday was for my younger daughter to accompany her. I went back to her and asked what her mother had said she replied "It's up to me". I asked her if she was going to go on the holiday, she said "no". I grabbed a case we all threw some things in for my younger daughter and left for the airport 35mins later than planned. We arrived at the airport with only just enopugh time to change the name and check in. The girl remained at my house until 7.30 when she was picked up. At no time did she request any medical attention. At 12 the same day she left a message on her friend's facebook "Hey fancy an extra person at creamfields if I can get a ticket" She had spent the previous weekend at a wedding over 200 miles away without reporting any illness.

She has put me in a very awkward situation. Her actions are not what I would expect from anyone too ill to travel. If she really was her primary concern would be her health, not her money. I certainly would not have left an ill person unattended in my house and as I said before if I was her mother I woulldn't have left it an hour before I collected her.

She says she thinks she may have glandular fever, but you certainly don't develop this 5 mins before you leave the house.

Again, the biggest problem is her insurance compnay not meeting her claim because there was a name change. (My younger daughter had to buy the extortionate insurance at the airport.)

Have you spoken to the parents of the 'friend'? It would be interesting to know what they think, although I suspect they would stick-up for the girl, even if they privately agreed with you.

Judging by your previous post I'd have no hesitation in saying to the girl 'there's no way you are going to be reimbursed'. I'd also explain my reasons why - primarily the facebook evidence (which, as suggested, I hope you've taken a screen shot of) and the fact that she didn't mention feeling unwell during her stay at your house.

The fact that this situation has brought you to seek advise shows that you do care about what has happened. You have a conscience, I don't think this girl does. Her loss. Unfortunately, your daughter also suffered through this girls 'selfishness' (as far as I can judge) and I do sincerely hope, your daughter is having the time of her life with her sister, and posts accordingly on facebook when they get home

I had glandular fever about 6 years ago and I remember it well. I had the symptoms for about a month before I was diagnosed (extreme fatigue, sore throat, stomach pains, headaches, one minute hot the next cold, severe muscle pain). i went to the doctor as I thought I had tonsiliteus, Doctor ruled that out with one look. Doctor took blood samples and within 48 hours it was confirmed I had it. What followed was 3 months of having the worst case of flu and a short stay in hospital when my I got an ingected gland. Now, the incubation period from infection to when the symptoms first appear is between 30 and 50 days. Glandular fever is very very common and doctors notice it very easily. SO, I dont think she had it because she would have been noticably ill and if she did have it she would know by now as it is a simple blood test.

Morally, I think I would give her something back but then I would wait for an apology and an explanation.

Legally, without a unfit to fly certificate and the circumstances, then no action can or will be brought.

Lets be honest, she didn't fancy it for whatever reason, and your other daughter took her place. Fair enough.

FWH suggesting that your daughter could have gone on her own is laughable, and unreasonable. She can't and won't be able to claim any money back based on the evidence provided and the situation seems to be snowballing to the ridiculous.

To suggest that people pull out of holidays at the very very last minute as 'not unusual' is also a ludicrous statement to make. In my 7 years as a rep I only ever had this happen maybe half a dozen times, and half of them were right after September 11th.

Good luck with it, but I think, personally, that you have zero to worry about.

I think fwh was coming from a legal stance which is very different to an emotional response to what we believe to be morally right and proper.

My personal take is that the friend 'threw a sicky' for what ever reason ??? fear of flying or she had a new boyfriend, only she knows.

Bottom line is she left your daughter in the lurch at the 11th hour and 55 minutes, costing you money to salvage your daughters holiday and finding a replacement. Lucky you had a daughter (with a current passport) who could step in at the last minute. However, she was under the legal drinking age... this may have impacted on your daughter enjoyment by not being able to go to clubs/bars and the like. I'm sure the two original girls would have done that.... well I would have

What would have happened had you not been able to find a replacement on such short notice OR more importantly not been able to get a name change ???

I wouldn't be paying out a penny piece until ALL travel insurance avenues have been exhausted and in writing. My recent travel insurance experience is to NEVER except their first refusal and to appeal any refusals.

Please come back and let us know how you went.

Cheers Geri

FWH is just giving his opinion folks it has no legal standing and he will be the first to tell you that

I agree I wouldn't pay her either. She deliberatly left it till 5 mins before you were due to go to the airport, what Doctor is open at 6.15am anyway to provide a 'not fit to fly' letter ? Probably just wanted to go to Reading or wherever the concert was instead and is hoping to get funds for it.

I don't see it as your younger daughter getting a free holiday at all. I see it as your older daughters holiday being saved. If your older daughter hadn't travelled, she would have lost 500 pounds. I wouldn't offer anything at all it puts you in a worse position. If she wants it let her go to the small claims court, but I bet she wont, she will know what she has done. Insurance wont pay out for 'disinclination to travel' which is what she had.

FWH is just giving his opinion folks it has no legal standing and he will be the first to tell you that

We all can only express our "personal" opinions here on HT. But when doing so I try to express an opinion which reflects what I consider not only reasonable, but also the view that may be taken by others who are effected.

For example the daughter going alone I agree is not really something she may wish to do, but the insurance company will take the view there was nothing stopping her.

Tell the girl to go whistle for her money? Well yes but in real life she is within her rights, no matter how unreasonable people may consider it. If she were to take it to court they might find in her favour, in which case not only would the OP have to refund the money but would incur more costs. It may well be that the girl was ill no matter what people may think.

There are always two sides to a story. The OP is telling it from her side. I would like to hear the other, perhaps if this girl was to tell it she might the see how it is not as black and white as she thinks.

fwh

If the 'friend' had something in writing from her GP or hospital stating she was not fit to travel the daughter should have been able to claim off her insurance as her travelling companion was ill. At 5 minutes notice I wouldn't have been able to take the risk that this was going to happen.

It would be interesting to hear it from the other perspective but I'm still inclined to think it was a change of mind rather than something more serious. I still think that if she can prove she was certified unfit to travel maybe some sort of compensation should be offered IMO.

I see no reason to distrust the OP, she has come on here in good faith to seek advice and puts up well balanced and well reasoned posts. Unlike some people who come to argue their case, she is very fair to the extent of considering offering the 'friend' who let her daughter down so badly some monies.

IMHO I would think that on the balance of probability a court would think that 5 mins notice of being too unwell to travel, on the date of the flight and then being on facebook a few hours later seeking information on how to get to a weekend festival would be considered unreasonable and just prove that it was a 'disinclination to travel' rather than a genuine medical emergency.

Actually Gerib makes a good point. As one of your daughters is only 17 wouldn't that change the All Inclusive ticket from an adult to a child? Would she have been allowed the adult wristband?
On another note, all this talk of legal etc. Is there any legal evidence that this girl has paid anything for the holiday in the first place?
How much was the holiday? Did I see you post £500?
It might just come down to offering her £200 or £250. The reason I say this is not to do with morals etc but just to stop things getting very ugly! Often these things end up going a lot further and could even effect mutual friends they have!
If it was £500 then she would most likely have lost £50 -£100 as an excess!

Now for the insurance:
The insurers wouldn't have paid out for a condition that she's had for "months" unless it was pre-told to them and she had extra cover for it! (but from reading I'm guessing she just said that as an excuse for you)

Now the facts:
If she did become ill 5 minutes before you were due to depart (and her illness WAS covered by the insurance) then she would have needed an unfit to fly note as soon as she was well enough to get one (or the dr visiting her) She would then be able to claim the money back for her holiday as long as no-one else went using 'her' ticket. As her ticket was used though the insurance would never pay out!
Personally:
I think what she did was totally unfair and left you and your daughter in a right mess and not really enough time to think about anything! This is why I think maybe paying for half the holiday to keep things sweet!

Unless:
Your daughter doesn't want to keep the peace with this girl and feels like ripping her head off then I would stick to your guns and offer her nothing!

Terrible situation, if this was me ( am only offering an opinion from a moral point of view ), not a chance would this girl get any money back ! It must have been the OP's daughter's worst nightmare to hear this 'friend' was 'ill' and wasn't going on holiday with only 5 minutes to spare setting off for the airport. For anyone to suggest that the daughter could have gone on her own is outrageous ! The poor girl must have been in bits to learn her 'friend' wasn't going, and I don't believe she was ill, given all the OP said about the facebook messages, so bravo to her sister for stepping in at the ( very) last minute.
I know my comments don't help at all, but just wanted to comment on an awful situation.
I really hope this girl doesn't persue any money from this family, as it surely is not due.

Many thanks for all of the advice and replies.

The girls returned on Wednesday having had a good time.

The "friend" has remained silent. My elder daughter has given me a few more details and the "friend" had said the previous weekend that the boy she had just started seeing was returning from Australia after a 6 week holiday and she was reluctant to leave him. She asked if my daughter's boyfriend would go on the holiday, my daughter told her he could not go as he could not afford it, she also said that she thought the illness she had a month or so back was returning. She had had antibiotics for this illness, but had not completed the course, so the weekend before they went she decided to start taking them again!!!! Only she knows what was going on in her head. If she thought she was ill she had plenty of opportunity to see a doctor on the Monday or Tuesday. The evening before she slept at our house she was with her boyfriend until 10.30pm earlier that day she had gone to get her currency. Her boyfriend was going to the festival at the weekend and clearly she wanted to go with him.

Some kind of explanation for her actions and an apology would not go amiss. I agree with the comments about her maybe being given some money, but given her behaviour and her willingness to allow my daughter lose all her money I am reluctant to offer any, I am still waiting to see if she gets in touch. My younger daughter did not have a holiday of her choice, tbh I didn't even ask her if she wanted to go I just woke her up and told her, we had no time to think or discuss anything properly. My younger daughter had had no injections to go to Egypt so they thought it best not to leave the resort complex so did not book any trips that my elder daughter had wanted to.

I suppose it's just wait and see if she comes up with anything.

Thanks again for all of the support.

well, this is The OP's Daughter! the Lead booker!

let's start from the very begining the Friend is 18 not 19 i am 20
Due to fly on Wed 26th 9am.

recieve a txt from the Friend on Sat 22nd 'would your bf want to go with you insted' my reply 'why, he
cnt afford it' her reply ' i am going to really miss *boy* hes been in Australia for 6 weeks, im at a wedding this weekend and then il see him for 2 days then be going again' my reply 'dont be silly distance makes the heart grow fonder..etc' (she wasnt even officially with him! so its not even her Bf) she didnt mention this again.

10:30pm Tues- We go pick her up from *boy's* house she is fine no sign of ilness get to mine says she feels a bit ill has been for the last few days few months back was taking antibiotics but didnt finish the course and had started taking them again! (she had no out signs of ilness im a student nurse went to bed fine all excited!

5:15 am Wed morn wake up start getting ready but friend doesnt an says she doesnt feel well so i say take a couple of paracetamol see how you feel in 20 mins, she refused to do this as she said it wouldnt make her feel better, so i suggested she rang her mum, she refused to do this, seemed she was very reluctant to try! as the first thing i would have done is ring my mum to have her advice! same again 'would your bf not want to go'...me 'no he cant afford it' ... friend 'i dont even care about the money i dont want to go! so i said il go see what my mum says,

my mum said the same ring your mum she stil wouldnt my mum said well you need to make a decision if u want to go or not and she said i dont know i think im going to feel worse ...so no actual answer

phone thomos cook they say we can do the name change, so i ring my bf thankfully he answered. 1 point to make clear i would NEVER have rung him if she hadnt have said i dont even care about the money because i wouldnt have wanted this on his back turns out his passport was out of date, so next option drag Sister out of bed throw everything we can into a suitcase and into the car this was by now 6:30, time to have left 6:15 mum goes one last time to friend, to find out what her decision, no straight answer just i dont know, we had no time for messing about so we just went.

me being the nice friend i am txt her saying dont wory bout anything its all sorted now, not wanting her to feel bad about letting me down that short notice.

only managed to get through with literally 30 seconds to spare!! absolunt nightmare, thought i could sit and breathe when i got through the gates, but got a txt from friend asking about money,

as it would have been my mum if she was going to would be giving the money i said im sorry but sister doesnt work so cannot afford to pay you back, txts back and too saying how she needed the money etc....all i was thinkin was an hour ago u didnt care about the money.

anyway after a holiday that was lovely but not the way we planned, if i was to go away with my sister we wouldnt have gone to such a relaxing place, wed have gone where there was more to do!

told every1 we met our story and they all said well shes guna have to take it on the chin! exactly my opinion too

anyway come home and hear about what has been happening here, friend left the house at 7:30 we dont actualy know if she had phoned her mum before we left because none of us actualy saw this happening, she claimed to have had a blood test and they said she may have glandular fever, but as a blood test takes at least a week, and ive heard from others who have had it you have to have 2, she has no certificate to prove this! she also says insurance wont pay out as there was a name change, then at 12:30pm same day she writes to another friend on facebook asking her if there was any tickets for creamfields that weekend if they wanted another person to go with them!

what person with glandular fever wants to go and slum it at a festival instead of a 5* all inclusive relaxing holiday its beyond me!

we find out *boy* was going and although no proof but from the texts she sent me on the sat before travel i believe she had all along planned to do this becuase she wanted to go here with her now official bf!

now it all came together the refusal to phone her mum, the refusal to take tablets, the indecisiveness on the morning about wether she wanted to go or not, she had planned this!

she was out that sat weekend obviously having failed to get a ticket shopping with her mum as i have friends who have had glandular fever you are very ill with it and would be in bed or definatly at home!

the funny thing is we havnt heard off here mum, although i am 20 if if was her i would have got my mum to sort it for me as she has more knowledge, ive herd that her mum is the sort of person to say get on the plane, and wel you didnt go so course you wont get your money back.

she was also arranging to go out to chester for a night out on the wed of return, someone who is ill does not do this!

at that last minute i could not risk her not getting a certificate to say she was too ill to travel if i hadnt have gone i may have lost a holiday and my money!

sister missed out on school introduction day, driving lessons, dance lessons, drama lessons and seeing her bf who had been away and was goin away again the weekend after return, personally if she had been asked what she wanted to do she wouldnt have wanted to go, but she had no choice she was told not asked! she had no injections either.

if sister hadnt have come i would have still gone so therfore she would have only been able to claim money from the flights as it was a room price not per person! im jus glad sister could come because what looser goes away on their own?

any way i hope this is clear, she is no longer a friend oh and another of her ex friends heard the story and said thats sounds exactly like friend!

were still awaiting this unfit to travel certificate and we have the txts, facebook comments against her if she tries to sue, if only i recorded her voice when she said i dont even care about the money!