Only one side of the story has been given. With respect, there is the other side we do not know except as told by the OP.

I fully appreciate this and yes there are always 2 sides. I have tried to explain what happened as clearly and precisely as possible without becoming emotional about the whole thing. I must admit I was quite cross when I posted yesterday after finding out that this girl who was too sick to go on holiday was out in a restaurant with her parents the day after she should have travelled.

The plain facts are we would have a record of the time the phone call was made to Thomas Cook asking about a name change, this would indicate how late the girl left it to confirm that she would not be going. We have facebook evidence that only 3hrs after she should have been on the flight she was asking a friend if she could join them at creamfields; this was the very next weekend,, just 2 days later. The very next day she is in a restaurant with parents and friends; again we can evidence this.

Now, I don't know how ill you you have to be to obtain a not fit to travel certificate. Clearly if she has one this was for an illness that developed just as we had to leave for the airport, but left her feeling fine to organise a weekend away 3 hours later and fit and well in the restaurant the next day.

What i can't provide proof of as it is only the opinion of my family was the fact that she showed no signs of illness, she wasn't flushed, pale, vomitting, listless. She had complained the previous weekend that she had a sore throat and she had started taking antibiotics that had been prescribed some months before but the course not completed, this I can't prove.

The whole thing could become very nasty and create far more problems and cost a lot more than the few pounds the holiday cost.

This is good advice and at the moment we are just waiting for them to contact us as we suggested in our letter to them.

I feel I will be pretty stuck if she can get a unfit to travel certificate and wonder if this alone would have been sufficient evidence for the insurance company to pay up. I think in this scenario I would like evidence of her illness and the insurance company's refusal to pay on the grounds of a name change. My daughter had seperate insurance, but her company advised me that given the facts they would consider the claim and her insurers may do the same.

I have no reason to doubt what the OP has posted but whilst there may be plenty of views expressed here, they are those held by the person posting. None move things closer to a solution. Once legal action starts then both parties have a great deal to lose.

Unfortunately young people do not consider the consequences of their actions in the same way that us ‘wrinklies' do. The girl may well have felt unwell on the day and decided that she was not fit to travel. We older people are less likely to make snap decisions and certainly do consider others besides ourselves in such circumstances.

Reading what the OP has posted this whole thing will cost a lot more than the holiday to prove, and there is no guarantee of success which is why I urge caution.

fwh

hi...there is a cheap way of either moving things along....or putting it to bed...and very easy to do.

Take a photo copy of the fathers letter to send with your reply, and refer to it in your reply letter, .....keep your letter short and to the point....if I wrote the reply it would go something like this.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

your address

girls address(so no queries as to whom letter meant for)

date

Dear (girls full name)
I acknowlege reciept of your fathers letter , which was recieved after our disscussions regarding your last minute decision not to travel
Though I am concerned to hear via your father's letter that you are now unwell and on serious medication, it is your condition at the point in time you refused to travel that has any bearing on your claim for re-embursement from myself, my sister or my mother.
If you wish to persue this matter futher I request you provide proof to substanciate firstly your condition at (time date of refusal to travel) in the form of a doctors letter, which should also state it was not a pre-existing condition, and include date and time you sought medical help after being unable to travel. I believe you would have sought and recieved a medical examination, diagnosis, and treatment very soon after you decided you were not going to travel for an illness so debilitating that is caused you to loose your holiday. Secondly a letter from your insurance stating it was solely due to someone else going in your place, which nulified your claim. It should state your medical condition at the time. would have fulfilled all their conidtions for a full re-embursement .
I also hope we can come to a conclusion in this matter, and on reciept of requested proof that it was solely the fact my sister became my travel companion which has caused your monetary loss I will be willing to discuss this matter further.

Yours faithfully
Your full name

--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TAKE A PHOTO COPY OF YOUR LETTER.....very important to keep
Put copy (not the original..keep envelpope was sent in with date on too) of fathers letter along with your letter together....and send by recorded delivery...KEEP THE RECIEPT FROM POST OFFICE...check on line it was delivered and copy screen as proof.....then wait for reply.....ignore any futher contact unless from her insurance or solicitor untill you are sent the proof asked for....tweetie....Good Luck

ps.....letter cant be between 3rd parties but between girl and daughter as was daughter who had the right and changed the name on tickets

Take care - You could be in breach of the Data Protection Act.

The letter may be used as evidence in a court case. Sending a copy to someone else without permission of the writer is illegal.

As I said before both parties really need to take a step back on this and think about it. Very easy to dig yourself into a hole.

fwh

As I said before both parties really need to take a step back on this and think about it

I appreciate your advice and we must remain sensible about the whole thing. THB nothing has happened yet, the girls have not spoken and we have only received one letter from the father asking about reinmbursement to which we have replied suggesting he contact us and we speak in person.

The ball is in their court. But meanwhile I am still trying to find out where we would stand legally, how ill do you have to be to cancel a holiday at the last minute and would the insurance company maybe consider the claim.

The evidence that Tweetypie suggests we request sounds to be fair, I would like this evidence before I chose to part with any money to them. Whether we request this verbally or in writing will depend upon what they do next.

Sending a copy to someone else without permission of the writer is illegal.

If the letter is addressed to me surely I can do with it what I wish, which would include giving it to my daughter as it most certainly concerns her. After all she is the one who I presume is ultimately responsible for paying any money back as she was the lead booker. Or would I be deemed responsible as I allowed my other daughter to go or would she be responsible to pay for the holiday as she had the "benefit?

Thanks once again for all of the support and advice. BTW I did telephone Ros as suggested, but she is out of the office until next week.

BTW I did telephone Ros as suggested, but she is out of the office until next week.

Hi eevie

I'd keep trying to talk to Ros if I were you, she will be able to tell you where you stand legally.

Good luck.

If you can't speak to Ros than ask to speak to Pam, Ros's PA, as Pam is also very clued up on travel law.

You may share the letter with your daughter but sending a copy to the insurance company would be a breach of the act.

fwh

Take care - You could be in breach of the Data Protection Act.
The letter may be used as evidence in a court case. Sending a copy to someone else without permission of the writer is illegal.

How, under which section of what act?

You may share the letter with your daughter but sending a copy to the insurance company would be a breach of the act.

Ditto.

I wish to add that Glynis is quite right about getting legal advice from Ros's office.

The whole thing is much more complex than the usual bad holiday experience we get on this forum.

Peter

These are my thoughts.

Travel Insurance companies do not like paying out.

Without knowing what the daughter told her father. I suspect like all kids they only tell their parents what they want to hear (well my kids did anyway) However, it appears that he believes her and supports her.

Personally, I'd be wanting proof off the travel insurance company stating that they would have paid her if the holiday hadn't been taken by someone else. Also, a copy of the medical certificate stating that she was not fit to travel.

I don't know of any GP's that would give a medical certificate retrospectively (mine won't unless it's an on going medical condition) We all sign something along the way which allows Travel Insurance companies to access our medical files.

I can only speak from recent experience after making a legit claim. First I had to visit my Dr and she had to fill in a form and state I was fit to travel. Had I not been fit to travel it would have null and voided my claim.

After the insurance was paid out, the insurance company then tried to claw back the money off the hotel where I'd had the accident. I told them it was my fault and not the hotels and I simply wasn't looking where I was going.

Then... I was contacted again, they wanted my itinerary and ALL credit cards that I had used to book the holiday. This was to check whether they had travel insurance attached to them. They wouldn't just take my word for it and I had to send copies of our CC statement and give parts of the credit cards numbers so they could check for themselves.

I'm only telling you this because after a claim is paid out, it doesn't end there. I would be concerned that if the insurance company paid your daughter's (ex) friend, I think there would be a possibility of them trying to recover the money off your daughter. Bottom line as far they are concerned is... Someone took the holiday.

Hopefully Ros can advise.

Cheers Geri

eevie2468 wrote:

Just thought I'd post an update, as this miserable business has not gone away.

We received a letter from the girl's father a couple of weeks back explaining that she was "unwell" and on "serious medication"; whatever that means. He explains that she would have been able to recover the money from the insurance had someone not taken her place. He is asking what my intentions are regarding "reimbursement" and wants to deal with the problem "amicably without taking matters further".

I have replied quite simply stating that if my daughter hadn't travelled then she would have been out of pocket without any chance of getting her money back. i have asked him to telephone me and suggested we discuss this in person.

BUT can you believe this....there are photos of her on facebook, looking the picture of health, having a meal out with her "boyfriend" and both her parents the day after she should have gone on holiday! ..... And the father has the cheek to say she is on "serious medication".

I can't believe what apalling behaviour he is indulging her in.

Initially I would have been happy to discuss a small amunt of compensation for the girl, but with all that's materialised since I don't feel inclined to give her anything. Right now I feel she is trying to extort money from me.

I will let you know what happens

So sorry that this has not gone away, and you are still having to defend your actions.

I feel there is no reason whatsoever to doubt your word and cannot see what you have posted that would make others doubt it.

It is no wonder that teen and young people end up confused as to right and wrong when their responsible adults collude in this way.

Please print the evidence from facebook before they have time to reconsider their foolishness in placing happy pictures of a well person on there, at the time as she was saying she was too ill to travel on the holiday.

I am involved with employment legislation and evidence from face book is being used in this field, so I am sure other parts of the law would consider it as well. We can see from Tootsie's post that evidence from Facebook which shows people are blatently telling untruths is also used in the Car Insurance field, so I can't see why this wouldn't apply in the travel industry.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

I would do nothing. The holiday was only worth £530 and legal fees alone per hour are about £150 upward. So to cut a long story short unless you get an actual document from the court I would ignore all correspondance. If you do not want to give them any money and the girls are no longer friends then I would remain quiet and let them do all the hard work.

I can not understand this,as a father to an 18 year old i would be the first to say how irreresponsible they are at times. My daughter drives me mad. Having said that you have to look beyound the red mist. The girl paid for her hoilday with her credit card. Now all this insurance lark is a red herring. The insurance does not come into play as a name change was made to the tickets, making the girls insurance invalid. The problem here is that the name was changed to the sister, which i take it the op is not denying. Now like some people would say there are 2 sides to a story, however courts only deal in facts. The name was changed on the ticket, the judge does not deal with she said that, she did this. The facts are the name was changed, so less costs for the change i would think a court would suggest you daughter should pay. The whole illness and what went on afterwards would not matter. The other girl may put a different spin on it. She may well argue that the sisters wanted to go together and offered to buy her ticket. Like i said people will argue there case on both sides. But at the end of the day the facts are: The girl paid by credit card ( her prove) and the name was changed on the ticket( was that with her consent,can you prove that it was) A judge may well look at this and see your daughters and you have pushed her out of the holiday, so that they can go together. Like i said you have to leave the insurance out of this, the name was changed on the ticket for what ever reason. I would sit both families down and find a solution. Because as far as i see there is right and wrong on both sides.

Well, Steve, I appreciate that we have only heard one side of the story but I just can't see from what has been written over the last 5 pages what your comment

Because as far as i see there is right and wrong on both sides.

can possibly be based on.

And also from what the OP has written, she has tried to resolve this issue by suggesting that she meet face-to-face with the other girl's father.
That was at the beginning of this month, we haven't had an update from eevie since then.

I hope she took the advice she was given and contacted Ros to see where she stood from a legal perspective.

I have to agree with you Prettypollycat.

I agree with Prettypollycat too. This was all done on the spur of the moment by eevie and family as they didn't have much time to think about it. I really felt sorry for them faced with that decision.

Hi prettypollycat

Well, Steve, I appreciate that we have only heard one side of the story but I just can't see from what has been written over the last 5 pages what your comment
Quote:
Because as far as i see there is right and wrong on both sides.

In answer to your question. 2 girls going on holiday fact. 1 girl drops out at the last minute fact. Younger sister took her place fact. Everyone is agreed on that. However as soon as they changed the name on the airline ticket, that meant the other girl could not claim of her insurance that also is a fact. Now the grey area around this is was she really ill and unfit to fly ( everyone is unsure on this point including the mother). However in law this does not matter as the name was changed on the ticket, making her claim void. You have to step back and look at the facts. Now big sister could not cancel her holiday, as the insurance would not pay out.She could have gone on her own leaving her friend to prove to the insurance company that she was unfit to fly. Now the wrong on both sides here and in law is that the mother or sister ( lead passenger) changed the name on the ticket. Now a court would have to look at did they change the name to screw over this other girl or did they do it so that the older sister would not go on holiday on her own. By putting the little sister on the ticket they have entered into a contract. Again look at the facts the girl paid by credit card so she could prove she paid for the holiday. And the younger sister name was put on the ticket. Argue all you want but the way i see it is take off what ever expenses they had to pay for changes at the last minute, and pay the girl the rest back. Yes this girl is irrresponsiable and caused a lot of trouble. But she is 19 young and payed for her holiday, we all make mistakes in life and i know we must learn from them. Give her something back.