For those doubters as to whether the closure of UK and european airspace was an over-reaction and acusing NATS and the Met Office of getting it wrong, the following is the technical guidance issued by Airbus, the largest aircraft manufacturer in the world, just pipping Boeing to the post over the last year:

Flight Operations Briefing Notes: Operating EnvironmentVolcanic Ash Awareness, Airbus

This guidance was valid up to this events of the Icelandic Volcano erupting where rules have now changed slightly, but the principals and guidance still apply. It was only the last couple of days where expert opinion from aircraft and aero engine manufacturers, along with data provided by the Met Office, airlines, researchers, the CAA and many other organisations, through research, has found the risk to aircraft is lower than anticipated. This sort of research would normally take a couple of years, but it was expidited in order to assess risk and go against all current thinking. Great job and hats off to them

Darren

Is nt it funny how we all become experts, doubting NATS , I mean we have only been aware of volcanic ash problems for 6 days , but we can question NATS who have been doing this for god knows how many years !

I meanit does nt matter about the safety of 1000's of passengers I just want to get to my holiday in wherever it may be ......... !

I for one am glad that they erred on the side of caution ! Job well done !

I am struggling to understand the reaction of some people to the decision to close UK airspace. Have close friends who are UK commercial pilots, and also know some senior NATS staff.

My children are still being held in Egypt (missing Grandmother's funeral and GCSE exams this week already) but if those with knowledge feel it is potentially unsafe to fly, then there is nowhere I want them to be but safe on the ground - any other decision based on what WAS known from airframe manufacturers, engine manufacturers, meteorolgists and other assorted experts would be assuming an incalcuable corporate liability risk.

The learning curve on this experience by all concerned has been phenomenal and unprecedented - and on the positive side, will have long-term future implications on air safety. It appears to me that the backroom boys of airlines worlwide are subject to the most tremendous pressure currently from all sides and under the circumstances purile comments and selfish expressions of a "need" to resume flights are inappropriate.

I fear for airport staff in the next few days who , no doubt, will be subject to a continual barrage of selfishness and self-serving demands as passengers fght to demand "their rights" and determine that their reason to fly is greater than anyone else's. I feel a bun-fight (or worse) coming on.

no-one could possibly have been prepared for this scenario, it will undoubtedly have far reaching consequences on jobs in the industy and subsidary industries. Peoples LIVES (and not just holidays/business trips) WILL be affected by this. Just for once can't we stand back and just let people get on with their jobs and stop the accusations and conspiracy theories

It's interesting to now watch the mud (or should that be ash!) slinging that's going on about whether it was right or not to close the airspace. Safety has to be the first priority and those airlines who are wingeing at the closure would be the first to complain if they had been told it was okay to fly and the worst had happened with planes falling out of the sky. The only point they may have is the length of the closure, but again, safety is paramount and I know where I would rather have been at this time - feet firmly planted on terra firma!

As TAH-M says, I hope people don't take out their frustrations on airport staff, etc,; it would be a shame after all what has happened for it to descend into mayhem at the airport check-ins.

The Daily Star are blatantly scaremongering, just saw their paper in the local shop.

Front page shows a jumbo jet with flames coming out the engines and the headline suggests its a recent photo.

Its only by reading the story inside I discovered its a simulated photograph from the jumbo years and years ago that lost power in all its engines.

Disgusting way to try and sell more papers.

chelle_375
Thanks for the info its what i wanted to hear as we were only going to palma for 3 days.We were worried that once we arrived would our flight back be cancelled did not want to be stranded in palma.

Have to say I think thats a very good post by TAH-M.

shorty123 wrote:

Front page shows a jumbo jet with flames coming out the engines and the headline suggests its a recent photo.

Now there's a surprise! The tabloid media not letting the facts get in the way of a good story! There is a little bit of truth in what they're reporting, but to use such a 'photo' on the headline without clearly explaining what it is on the front page is a bit insensitive. There are examples of real photos they could have used, but then that would have costs them rather than a photoshop job and it wouldn't have looked quite as dramatic

Darren

Well rubbish newspapers such as that one have to have something sensational or they would never sell them

It was the airlines equivalent of swine flu!

Probably flights won't be as cheap in the future due to this. One good thing to come out of it all is that we have all found out that holiday travel insurance is not worth the paper it is written on.

Shirley

There were a couple of BA flights from Florida on the fringes when I went to bed last night, one circling Cornwall and one waiting at Shannon. Presumably the've made it to Heathrow by now although.

_____________________________________________

TAH-M

I completely agree with you but this is Britain, you don't need to have any knowledge of anything to have an opinion, especially when there is an election coming up! People read things in bent/useless newspapers and think it's true. I wake up to see that it is now an election issue and it's the governments fault - no explanation as to how the UK government controlled the airspace of Germany, France, Benelux, Scandinavia etc. etc. but the airlines were right all along (guess which party BA donate to!)

If the tabloids want a real photo of what happens when a 747 falls out of the sky into a built up area they don't have to look far - just Google Lockerbie.

I´m with TAH-M on this all the way, I´m stuck in Spain but in a far better position than those with children, work commitments and no money.
We´ve been on "standy-by" for coaches and half packed ready to go at short notice, the "not-knowing" has been frustrating, but safety is paramount and I cannot find one single person who I have spoken to, who thinks that closing the airspace was not necessary.

Sanji

RYANAIR, new update on website they are reviewing the proposed cancelled flights for 22nd and 23rd April and an update will be available on the website by 12 noon.

jacky wrote:

One good thing to come out of it all is that we have all found out that holiday travel insurance is not worth the paper it is written on.

You'll find many insurance companies will be reimbursing expenses. Bear in mind it's stated in many policies that 'acts of god / nature' aren't covered. An insurance policy doesn't cover absolutely everything, that's why there's pages of small print. You are only insured against known risk as detailed in individual policies. Travel insurance is essential and you should never travel without it.

Darren

My other halfs airline has rescheduled some of the cancelled flights and his isn't one of them. All the the flights leaving his his airport in the US are full and he isn't confirmed on one till May 1st. I find this shocking that Virgin are flying people out to the said airport who will then return before my other half! How can Virgin expect people to be stranded for almost a month???

The latest situation from the National Air Traffic Service is available on NATS website.

Darren

Dazbo HT Mod wrote:

jacky wrote:

One good thing to come out of it all is that we have all found out that holiday travel insurance is not worth the paper it is written on.

You'll find many insurance companies will be reimbursing expenses. Bear in mind it's stated in many policies that 'acts of god / nature' aren't covered. An insurance policy doesn't cover absolutely everything, that's why there's pages of small print. You are only insured against known risk as detailed in individual policies. Travel insurance is essential and you should never travel without it.

Darren

Most insurance companies are NOT paying out. I suggest you browse internet sites before making a sweeping statement like that. We have worldwide insurance with Eversure and they won't be paying out. There is no "Act of God" in the small print either. We paid about £40 extra for a higher cancellation cover (£5000 per person). It does not cover a cancelled flight as the airline is responsible which is fair. It also does not cover any money paid in advance for hotel/cruise bookings. So, I have written to Eversure and asked WTF are they selling cancellation cover for, I shall also be contacting the financial Ombudsman. eg.Hire a villa and pay £1000 in advance, airline doesn't get you there...insurance doesn't pay!

Just another thought. If you leave on holiday this week, because the authorities have warned of further disruption to flights, the insurance will not cover you if you are stranded abroad. They are using the same tactic for not paying as with the strike. Unless you book a package with T.Cook etc it seems the cancellation covers nothing...they are selling this cover under fals pretences.

Jacky

You're quite right but this isn't new and if you had read our previous threads on insurance you'd have known what to look for in a policy. If they are saying they aren't paying because the cover was never there they're probably on strong ground because when I sat down and did a study of policies a couple of years ago all the policies were clearly written, admittedly in small print and never in the adverts. Very few covered this and they are constantly changing. The only way to be sure that you are covered is to phone (or preferably write) and specifically tell them what you want covered, most will say no (when I contacted Direct Line they actually said don't know and didn't want to discuss it!!). Two years ago I found the M&S (with Axa) did cover it but Axa on their own didn't, I think M&S later dropped cover. Any bright marketing person at an insurer that has stood by it's customers and paid out could have a bonanza with future advertising but it's more likely the company will say never again!

If the tabloids want a real photo of what happens when a 747 falls out of the sky into a built up area they don't have to look far - just Google Lockerbie.

And perhaps not just the tabloids,Steve. At the time I had to regularly travel through Lockerbie and the devestation was nigh on unbelievable - parts of the town looked as if it had been blitzed and the extent of the screened off land where parts of the plane fell alongside the motorway made it clear that wreckage was spread over a very wide area. The fact that so relatively few people on the ground were killed was due to the fact that Lockerbie is relatively small town and thankfully much of the wreckage fell on open land.

The possible consequences of jumbos falling out of the sky onto our large urban conurbations thoroughly justifies the very cautious approach. I'm glad that one hasn't but I do think that the intervention of Willie Walsh importing his industrial relations skills into the arena of public safety is extremely regrettable. R4 reported that he took the decision to send planes loaded with passengers on transatlatic flights before the shutdown was lifted and forced the hand of NATS and the CAA to open UK airports so they could land. If that is true then I don't know how anybody can condone such behaviour - and yes, if he'd been wrong I hope that he'd have been charged with the murder of every single passenger and hapless person just trying to get on with their life under the flight path.

SM

URGENT advice needed - Due to fly from Liverpool tomorrow at 11.45 to Girona. Flight no longer cancelled. Does anyone know if our original booking still stands as we havent had an e-mail to cancel and none of us have transferred or applied for a refund