Cruise lines have tried the non smoking ships and they don't work(mass market) one problem is that many of the gamblers(a significant revenue stream) are smokers so the casino is going to be one of the last refuges for the smoker. What they have discovered is that if smoking is restricted then more non-smokers are happy and the smokers will keep cruising even if they have to go outside.

The other thing the cruise lnes have in their favour is that smokers huff and puff a lot but then fall in line.

One problem cruiselines will have is the non-smokers are more likely to complain and cause fuss about a smokey smelling cabin than the minority smoking group will complain about not being able to smoke in the cabins, as public opinion that smoking in shared facilities is no longer acceptable(US and UK) the lines have that on their side and cabin/bar bans will become more common throughout the industry.

There was a great debate when NCL changed the policy to casino and outside only but that died off quickly and the smokers make do, problem now is there are more complainers about the casinos getting too smokey. The rest of the ships are now much better place to be so a positive move.

There are lots of things a cruise line can change with it still being considered minor, as for a change in smoking policy clearly a major for some but if smoking has that much of a contol over your life then I think it is time to reflect on that as you cancel your cruises.

Windjammer you have not addressed the question,if Thomson would have publicised the change in smoking policy then i believe most smokers would not have booked + therefore risking losing good money.
If you book a cruise online today with Thomsons the FAQ page says smoking is allowed in cabins + areas of several bars,dont you think this is dishonest or doesn't it matter because we are smokers.
If you booked All Inclusive + they changed the policy that you can only get free drinks between say 1400-1500hrs + you complained would you be happy if i said you should refect on your habit ?.
There are 5 bars on Thomson ships,4 totally non-smoking + 1 bar with probably 200 n/s seats + 40 smoking seats.I dont think thats unreasonable.
By the way smoking has been banned in casinos on Thomson ships for probably 18 months + 2 cruises i went on last year ( Destiny + Celebration )they where EMPTY !!!!.
I don't think smokers will keep cruising with Thomsons,just like they stopped going to pubs in England resulting in small + local pubs/workingmens clubs shutting left right + centre.Where are all the non-smokers who said they would start going back to the pub when the smoking ban came in ???.
Thanks for the tip Tidewatching but luckily when Thomson changed the date of my cruise from 10th to 9th of October the eventual letter said i had 1 month to cancel without penalty so i used that reason in the end,sent out letter on 27th Feb.
Good job i read letter from previous posters Molleybabes + Fitzy2 alerting us to only finding out about ban when receiving thier ticket.
Thanks to Holidaytruths.
Johnny C

tidewatching wrote:

Luci, thank you for your reply, what did they mean when they said they were putting a note on your file please?

I think they meant that as I had booked via a travel agent and not direct that I could cancel via the travel agent and get my deposit back as there was a note on my file to this effect.

luci

glad you got sorted JC.

Clearly the question of whether smoking is allowed or not is of great importance to some people, my husband included, but to ban smoking in cabins or on balconies is a material change of contract and the least cruise companies should do is allow smokers to cancel their bookings if the change is made between booking and sailing.

Cruise companies are trying to straddle two horses here. To appease non smokers without totally alienating the smokers amongst us, thus they are introducing a smoking ban by inches a tricky balancing act.

As a former smoker myself, I'd say going outside would be managable for many smokers some of the time, but they won't be so keen on being prevented from having a nice quiet and private puff in their cabin too. I'm sure they won't be too pleased having a smoking ban imposed on them by stealth. After all, they're supposed to be on holiday to relax, not climb the walls. lol

It will be interesting to see how well the ships with the most smoking restrictions fare compared to the others.

johnny c wrote:

Windjammer you have not addressed the question,if Thomson would have
publicised the change in smoking policy then i believe most smokers
would not have booked + therefore risking losing good money.
If you
book a cruise online today with Thomsons the FAQ page says smoking is
allowed in cabins + areas of several bars,dont you think this is
dishonest or doesn't it matter because we are smokers.

I specificaly did not choose to comment on this aspect, it is up to individuals to decide if a change is significant or not and what action they take. Out of date web sites are nothing to be suprised about.

johnny c wrote:

If you booked
All Inclusive + they changed the policy that you can only get free
drinks between say 1400-1500hrs + you complained would you be happy if
i said you should refect on your habit ?.

Not a good choice of an alternative example since it is purly financial. An AI pack would be 20%-25% of the valueof a Thomsons cruise(£550max,AI pw) I would expect a pro-rata refund of the charge or the option to cancel the AI. The option to consume is still there so little impact for a drinker.

More appropriate would be something along the lines of restricting drinking to dinner and the casino with limited hours. Should such a change be made and I had decided to cancel and move to a cruise with longer opening hours there would be no offence since I would have considered my lifstyle choice in this area a part of the desision making process.

One thing I have noticed is that inertia and habit are often drivers for peoples choices much more than they should be so they no longer make rational judgements, smoking is a particular example of this partialy because of its addictive nature. Stepping back and reflecting on the restrictions that being a smoker bring and deciding are they worth it is something that should be done, I was pointing out that cancelling a cruise is probably a good time to do this.

In these cases statements like "I will never cruise thomsons again" are a sign of not thinking rationaly because a lot can change in the future to make thomson the ideal choice again one day

One should be challenging lifstyle,health,financial choices, eating,drinking,smoking,spends etc on a fairly regular basis. I reviewed my smoking habit of 10y over 20y ago and changed it(change of job and location triggered it), more recently we changed our weekly take away habit and do an extra cruise a year. Pure financial changes are easy to quantfy but those that have lifstyle,health and social impacts are a lot more difficult, the important thing is to avoid getting sucked in with the inertia and habits of a lifetime.

Extrapolating from the drinking analogy

I was thinking what if smokers had to follow the same rules as the drinkers, can't bring your own onboard and have to buy from the bar at £2 a time from a limited range now that would be equality

Thanks for response Windjammer,very philisophical.
The last point of your post really hits home the point i was making in my initial post of 14th March.
P=O,Carnival etc PUBLISH thier policy re bringing drink on board.If you read old posts on this thread they published thier change in smoking policy + will even refund deposit in event of cancellation.
This enables you to make a RATIONAL choice wether to book or not.
Thomson Cruises do not.
Your comments on Rationality,Inertia +Habit.
I made a decision,can i enjoy a 2 week cruise with such restitions,NO,so i made a RATIONAL decision to cancel.
I agree that inertia is a big failure of the British people,be it doing nothing whilst Banks,Energy Companies,Government walk all over us.
I dont think cancelling my cruise is inertia i think it is possitive.
There is nothing wrong with habit if you enjoy what you habitually do. i dont include smoking because its habitaul because its addictive.
I am 61yrs old + by choice retired + like most people getting older making Lifestyle,Health + Financial choices become a neccesity + i may even say habitual.
I would not book another Thomson holiday by choice not only because of smoking ban but other issues i had + the way they behave as a company,also i believe the quality of the product is declining (to cut costs) see some of my other postings on Destiny thread last year.
To be honest i was not going to book a Thomson cruise this year but as they came out with this cruise from Liverpool (10mins from home) i thought i would give it one more go.
I know i have gone off thread but i had to reply.Mind you i'm enjoying this discussion.

Nice reply, And clearly you have thought about the issue. But many don't.

"There is nothing wrong with habit if you enjoy what you habitually do. i dont include smoking because its habitaul because its addictive."

This is an interesting point, I agree with the first part, however it is important to make sure that something is done because you still enjoy it and not because it has become a habit. We enjoyed our weekly takeaway(Live in the south and a decent indian with leftovers for Sat lunch comes to £25) but on reflection decided that perhaps cutting back to once a month and spending the money on an extra cruise would be more rewarding. We tried it and we now have the takeaway less than once a month but enjoy them a lot more than we did when they were weekly, the extra cruise is a lot of fun also.

Addictive habits are in some ways not much different from any habitual behaviour just that the motivators needed to change the habit need to be that much stronger, finance on its own is usualy not enough but with the right motivations most can change.

You see this sort of issue a lot with people that have not thought through things properly, I spend time helping people with financial issues and it is fairly common for people to have Sat TV,Mobile phones,smoke and drink, etc. but cannot afford food. A simple readjustment of priorities and they are no longer struggling but can aford the is things that realy make a difference to being happy(er).

As for thomsons I have always thought of them of a typical package company that happens to run some holidays on a cruise ship, for price reasons they are not on our list that often, cheaper to use more upmarket lines or Island which have proper discounted prices.

I do feel for you having to give up a doorstep cruise that is something that would really get my back up, but when the price is right we will be back on a thomsons ship, last time was Topaz 7n AI for £400 but in those days we had Sun cruises which were often offering better deals.

Hope you find an alternative, I guess the FO Black Prince trips probably don't appeal that much, mind you looking at the prices they are not that good ATM.

Thanks for reply Windjammer,
Yes i got the cruising bug on Topaz (6 times) brilliant,was on the last cruise + could have sold my tickets for several times the price i paid.People had more tolerance to peoples habits those days.
Have the websites last couple of days (Vacationsto go etc) + yes theres some very good prices out there,looking at Celebration Century with balcony (smoke on balcony !!!) from Barcelona but also looking at Pullmantur from Barca in Sept,only 1 agent in UK=Jetline,can get Outside cabin + AI for good price.Spanish cruise company but something different.Live 5miles from Liverpool Airport + plenty of cheap Easyjet/Ryanair flights to Barca/Reus although Ryanair not so good if on cruise only 15kgs bag allowance.
Just sent Pullmantur E=mail to compare price.
Going to Spain for W/E in couple of weeks so may try Spanish travel agent.
By the way thier smoking policy is "Please respect non smoking areas in all bars".Thats the Spanish for you.They protested at thier smoking ban to save small bar livelyhoods+won.
P.S I think i'll leave the deep philisophical debate on this thread now although its been enjoyable.
I'm going to the gym now (5 times a week) but trouble is i have to do backstroke in the pool to keep ciggy dry !!!.
Thanks Windjammer for your thoughts.
Johnny C

I don't mind if some cruise lines totally ban smoking, I don't mind if they don't. What I mind is the ones who cannot have a stated policy and stick to it for the lifetime of the brochure, (not withstanding changes in the law).

My husband chooses to smoke. At his age, I respect his decision. Even though I'd rather he gave up, I realise that from his point of view it is better for him to keep on smoking than (us both) go through the trauma of his giving up. Our doctor quietly agrees. Smoking is still legal, he still has a legal choice. He, and other smokers, is not an Aunt Sally for everyone who feels like having a pop.

Johnny may have chosen the wrong analogy, but I can totally see his point. If it was almost anything else the companies wouldn't dare do it.

OT I read last week of someone whose ambition was to see the wonders of the Panama Canal. He and his wife spent a load of money on a two week 'Panama Canal Experience' cruise on a five star cruise liner. You can imagine his disappointment when the ship navigated the canal at night and he didn't see anything at all.

The answer to his complaint? Some things are out of the cruise company's control, and they never ACTUALLY said that they'd go through in daylight so he'd SEE it.

Thanks for all your posts, but can I ask everyone to please keep on topic, ie who does and doesn't allow smoking, so that members looking for this information can find it easily.

Thanks.

luci

Ok Luci, Here is some NCL info for the smokers on Jewel class from my Gem experiences (jade should be similar).

Not sure on the cabin situation.

The only inside smoking bar is the Casino, and outside they are fairly tollerant of those that drift out of the designated smoking areas as long as there are no complaints.

They have put handy ash bins,near to the doors to the outside which are close to major venues like the show lounges, dining and the disco(bliss) my friends that smoke seem to manage fine with this setup when out and about.

They also have been keeping the great outdoors(back of the ship) bar open in the evening to cater to smokers but there are complaints from those on the balconies below getting debris from that area which now seems to include buts so not sure how this will pan out.

Those 2 days we spent on the Gem (last October) smoking was allowed in cabins
The Cigar room was so small it only held about 20 people comfortably
I had a few moan at me in the casino but took no notice which usualy I would have moved or put it out but with it being the only indoor bar I couldnt move to another one.
I found it a little restrictive and think it would have been nice to have had 1 in door bar other than the casino to sit and have a quiet drink and a smoke. I cant see it being a problem on sunny cruises becuase of the amount of outdoor space but on cooler ones I could see it being a problem

Recently I rang NCL who said as already mentioned, smoking is allowed in the casino (think they might have mentioned one or two smoke free nights, but that might have been another line)in the cigar room, in cabins and on balconies also on designated areas of open deck but please to keep it away from eating areas. This doesn't apply to pipes and cigars which are more restricted.

Why they force smokers who'd like to smoke and have a drink at the bar into the casino, to the discomfort of non-smokers who like to gamble. After all, there are normally quite a few bars but only one casino so I agree with TravelMandy that it would be a good idea to have at least one other indoor smoking bar.

Hi all,on topic this time.
Whilst looking info for Celebrity Cruises (Century + Galaxy) again differences in website + brochure policy.
Website FAQ's says,
(1) Smoking IS permitted in staterooms.
(2) In designated areas on Port side of most public areas (Lounges,Bars,Decks).

Brochure says.
From Jan 08 Smoking will NOT be permitted in staterooms,the only exception being for those guests with balcony/veranda where smoking will be on this balcony/veranda area only.

Yesterday i sent E-mail to question which was correct.
Recieved return mail which stated.
"The correct information is on our Website"
They did not exactly state the policy in E-mail.
Just looked on Cruise Critic list updated on 15th March + it says you can smoke in cabins on Celebrity,but then again it says you can on Thomson ships but you can't ????.
Johnny C

I've just seen that Fred Olsen has banned smoking on all balconies throughout the fleet and they 'ask' you to refrain from smoking in cabins.

Received a letter from PO today regarding smoking policy on the Ventura (I do not smoke).
No smoking in cabins but allowed on balconies and certain areas of open decks and designated area of one of Venturas public rooms.

Personnaly would not bother me if whole ship was no smoking

Hi Madasharley

What date are you cruising on the Emerald?
Regards
Taylaboo

Can I ask you to please keep on topic, ie who does and doesn't allow smoking, so that members looking for this information can find it easily?

Other questions can be posted in the relevant ship's topic.

luci

Hi,

recieved the 2009 P&O brochure today,on the smoking policy it say's as follows;

For the safety,comfort and enjoyment of all our passengers,and in view of a ban on smoking in public spaces from 1st July 2007,we have reviewed and amended our policy on smoking and have adopted the following policy on board our ships.
Smoking will be permitted on cabin balconies (but not in cabins),on certain areas of the open decks and in designated smoking area of one public room.Smoking will not be permitted in any other areas.

This policy is for all P&O ships----becoming more restrictive and I doubt if I will book future cruises with them.

Regards
MM