Having read the posts on this thread, ellie_meg & Diane, here are some suggestions for you which I hope may be of help.
The Package Travel Regulations take precedence over a tour operators or travel agents brochure conditions, and any brochure conditions which seek to take away consumers rights in law are invalid and unenforceable, and more than likely in breach of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1999, also. As your flights, the company operating the holiday, and the day that you arrive home have all been changed, it would be impossible to argue that you are getting the holiday you booked, and you have every right to expect not just a full refund, but also compensation.
If you paid for your holiday by credit card, then the credit card company are jointly liable for the proper performance of the contract under the consumer credit act. If you did pay by credit card, I would ring your card issuer immediately and ask them to put pressure on the Agency you booked through to either come up with the holiday you have booked, or give you your money back. In view of the fact that they have taken payment from you for a holiday that they have been unable to provide, I would ask your credit card company to consider all payments made to the travel agency under dispute until you get some satisfaction from them. Point out that if it is not sorted out to your satisfaction quickly and you don't get your holiday & end up suing, then in view of their joint liability this will mean that you will be suing them _also_.
I would also contact ABTA again, and tell them that you feel that they have a duty to intervene and put pressure on Instant/Future travel to comply with the sections of their code of conduct that they are actively breaching, which are as follows:
Clause 2.1 Cancellation by Principal
(i) A Principal shall not cancel Travel Arrangements after the balance due date unless it is necessary to do so as a result of force majeure, or unless the Client defaults in payment of such balance.
(ii) Notwithstanding Clause 2.1(i), if Travel Arrangements are cancelled for reasons other than force majeure on or after the balance due date the Principal shall, in addition to the requirements of Clause 2.1(iii), below also offer that Client reasonable compensation.
(iii) If a Principal cancels previously confirmed Travel Arrangements he shall inform the Retailers and direct Clients without delay and shall offer Clients the choice of either:
(i) alternative Travel Arrangements of comparable standard, if available; or
(ii) a full refund of all monies paid. Such refunds shall be sent to Retailers and direct Clients within 10 days of the Client's decision being notified to the Principal.
2.2 Significant Alterations to Travel Arrangements by Principals
(i) Except for reasons of force majeure, a Principal shall not make a significant alteration to previously confirmed Travel Arrangements unless he does so in time to inform agents and direct Clients not less than 14 days before the departure date of the Travel Arrangements.
(ii) Notwithstanding Clause 2.2(i), if a Principal makes a significant alteration to previously confirmed Travel Arrangements for reasons other than force majeure on or after the balance due date, the Principal shall, in addition to the requirements of Clause 2(iii) below, also offer Clients reasonable compensation. Such compensation may be offered in accordance with a rising scale of payments calculated so that the nearer to the time of departure that the alteration occurs, the higher the level of compensation to be paid.
(iii) If a Principal makes a significant alteration to previously confirmed Travel Arrangements he shall inform Retailers and direct Clients without delay and shall offer Clients the choice of either:
(i) accepting the alteration; or
(ii) cancelling the Travel Arrangements and receiving a full refund of all monies paid. Such refund shall be sent to Retailers and direct Clients within 10 days of receipt of the notification to cancel; or
(iii) alternative Travel Arrangements of comparable standard, if available
Clause 1.1 (v)"Members shall comply with all relevant statutory and regulatory requirements" (i.e. The Package Travel regulations.)
Section 1.5 (iii) "Members shall ensure that their booking conditions comply with all relevant statutory provisions including the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999"
If they are still less then inclined to be helpful, I would be inclined to enlist the help of your local trading standards office, and the Office of Fair Trading, on 08457 22 44 99.
Hope this was of help to you, and I wish you both luck.
Please!
FLight times can be changed to whenver the airlines want. Unfortuantely you the airline are contracted to get you to your destination, but not at a specific time or even date. As long as they get you there.
I have worked in the aviation industry as everything for both charter and scheduled airlines ( as cabin crew, ground staff, tour rep, and am at present working as a letter writer/claims assessor for the major long haul tour op to the Caribbean and the USA. There unfortunately is not a lot you can do about your flight time change. They havent broken their contract bcos there still going to get you there.
Yes these times may be inconvenient for you, but youre still going on holiday! I know this site is for the complainers, and I came on here hoping to give me people advice from my experience in the industry, but really I think we need to take a reality check sometimes.
FLight times can be changed to whenver the airlines want. Unfortuantely you the airline are contracted to get you to your destination, but not at a specific time or even date. As long as they get you there.
I have worked in the aviation industry as everything for both charter and scheduled airlines ( as cabin crew, ground staff, tour rep, and am at present working as a letter writer/claims assessor for the major long haul tour op to the Caribbean and the USA. There unfortunately is not a lot you can do about your flight time change. They havent broken their contract bcos there still going to get you there.
Yes these times may be inconvenient for you, but youre still going on holiday! I know this site is for the complainers, and I came on here hoping to give me people advice from my experience in the industry, but really I think we need to take a reality check sometimes.
hi
thanks for your advise mrs j. ros told me all this and when i mentioned this to them their reply was we are not cancelling your holiday we are changing your hotel to another 5 star in our opinion and abtas guide lines we can do this, i know they are using bullying tactics but as this is so close to me going on holiday i will probably go under pressure and sort all this out when i get back, fallenangel im surprised by your reply as what you say with your experience isnt fully true, they are not allowed to change flights any way they like and not accept responsibility for this, for a 2 week holiday flights changed more than 12 hours warrants some compensation or full refund and for 1 week holidays flights changed around 8-10 hours would be looked at favourably for the same, this information has been given to me by 2 different people at abta and ros, so i would get your facts fully right before stating your opinions that arent true, this site is to help people and if theres a problem then its not our fault ,so we are not complainers without a reason so please dont give false information or sarky remarks i dont need this thank you
thanks for your advise mrs j. ros told me all this and when i mentioned this to them their reply was we are not cancelling your holiday we are changing your hotel to another 5 star in our opinion and abtas guide lines we can do this, i know they are using bullying tactics but as this is so close to me going on holiday i will probably go under pressure and sort all this out when i get back, fallenangel im surprised by your reply as what you say with your experience isnt fully true, they are not allowed to change flights any way they like and not accept responsibility for this, for a 2 week holiday flights changed more than 12 hours warrants some compensation or full refund and for 1 week holidays flights changed around 8-10 hours would be looked at favourably for the same, this information has been given to me by 2 different people at abta and ros, so i would get your facts fully right before stating your opinions that arent true, this site is to help people and if theres a problem then its not our fault ,so we are not complainers without a reason so please dont give false information or sarky remarks i dont need this thank you
Fallen Angel,
As a member of this site for 2 or more years I could take offence to you implying - no not implying, but stating, that I, as all the other members are complainers.
However I won't take offence but offer YOU some advice.
Please take the time to browse through other sections of the site and not just the holiday complaints section to see the many purposes which it serves.
As a member of this site for 2 or more years I could take offence to you implying - no not implying, but stating, that I, as all the other members are complainers.
However I won't take offence but offer YOU some advice.
Please take the time to browse through other sections of the site and not just the holiday complaints section to see the many purposes which it serves.
-
Edited by
lisaeugene
2005-03-02 21:18:09
Fallen Angel
Letter writer? I hope you use spell and grammar checks!!
I trust you have not dealt with clients in that manner. Perhaps you have had a bad day?
Letter writer? I hope you use spell and grammar checks!!
I trust you have not dealt with clients in that manner. Perhaps you have had a bad day?
LOL!
I just type and go at home and at work! what is spell check for? I dont mean it in a nasty way, honestly....
Just that these things are SO minor, and yes its a holiday, and yes it cost a lot of money but there are much worse things happening than a time change.
I just get really annoyed with all these posts to the tone of the same thing.
yes of course we get what we can, of course we change things when we can. We are a business and we are out to make money!
I know a holiday is a big event to you, but to us its just another person, from another place going away. Sorry, but it is true.
I just type and go at home and at work! what is spell check for? I dont mean it in a nasty way, honestly....
Just that these things are SO minor, and yes its a holiday, and yes it cost a lot of money but there are much worse things happening than a time change.
I just get really annoyed with all these posts to the tone of the same thing.
yes of course we get what we can, of course we change things when we can. We are a business and we are out to make money!
I know a holiday is a big event to you, but to us its just another person, from another place going away. Sorry, but it is true.
hi
thank you lisa and fiona i agree 100% with what you say, this is the holiday complaints section what do you expect, from time to time we need advise and to help each other glad your not dealing with my problems thats all i can say,oh no sorry youre on the side of the airlines !!!!!! helping them get out of their constant complaints of flight delay probs etc infact im surprised you have a job as an assessor since you have your facts totally wrong !!!!! if you had read the thread throughly you would have seen they have changed my hotel too not just the flights !!!!!
thank you lisa and fiona i agree 100% with what you say, this is the holiday complaints section what do you expect, from time to time we need advise and to help each other glad your not dealing with my problems thats all i can say,oh no sorry youre on the side of the airlines !!!!!! helping them get out of their constant complaints of flight delay probs etc infact im surprised you have a job as an assessor since you have your facts totally wrong !!!!! if you had read the thread throughly you would have seen they have changed my hotel too not just the flights !!!!!
oh my god, have you been forced to read this mail the answer is no, if you do not like what you are reading move on and read something else
Can I just remind all members of the terms and coditions of the site in particular number 3.
For your information also Fallenangel, this forum is not purely for as you state
Kath HT Admin
3. Show respect and courtesy to all other users
For your information also Fallenangel, this forum is not purely for as you state
but for people to tell the truth about their experiences before and after taking holidays. Many members have to save for a long time for their holidays and expect to receive what they book. Please be mindful of this when posting !this site is for the complainers
Kath HT Admin
-
Edited by
Kath
2005-03-02 20:50:56
I'd like to apologise for losing my temper to both Kath and to Fallen Angel.
Thanks for the reminder Kath.
Thanks for the reminder Kath.
getting back to mrsj ,i forgot to say i paid for it using switch card ,shame ,i really appreciate the information you typed as it will help other people too,this is what ros had sent me too, thanks
yr welcome, ellie_meg.
If you are intending to pursue a complaint about this when you get back from holiday, then I would recommend that you fire off a letter of complaint in writing now, before you go away.
fiona wrote:
Not true. Tour operators only have the right to change flight times under certain circumstances. If a tour operator changes the flight times by more than 12 hours, then the law says that customer is entitled to their money back. If a tour operator cancels or makes a major change to holiday arrangements after a customer has paid the final balance (including a change of flight times in excess of 12 hours), then the customer is additionally entitled to compensation.
With respect, if anybody needs to take a reality check, it would seem to be you, Fiona. The only reason tour operators get away with pulling this kind of stunt so often is that customers rarely know their rights and fall for the b****** line that tour operators and travel agents feed them. They know that for every 100 or so customers they treat like this, only a handful are likely to push the issue and take them to court over it, and they are playing the odds. Even if they get sued from time to time and lose, they still wind up massively in pocket.
We seem to be veering into reality check territory, again. If I run a business, and I enter into a contract with customers to provide certain goods or services for profit, do I have the right to ignore my customers legal rights whenever I feel like it, should I decide that I'm not turning enough profit? Would you argue that tour operators have the right to change things whenever they like in the interests of profit with regard to the businesses they deal with, who contract to supply them with hotels and transport services, also? Somehow, I don't think so.
A holiday contract is a legally binding document, and as with all contracts, it is legally enforceable on _both_ sides; it is not there just for the convenience of the tour operator. Were a tour operator to be on the recieving end of similar treatment from one of their suppliers, I think it is safe to say that they would be singing a very different tune indeed, and would not hestitate for long before instructing their lawyers.
A holiday is an expensive purchase, and consumers who book many months in advance and put down large amounts of money in deposits have every right to expect to get the holiday package they paid for. As with all businesses, there are laws in place which are designed to protect the interests of consumers, and tour operators and travel agents do not have any special exemption from them. They have to abide by the law in the same way as everybody else, and when they don't, any consumer who chooses to push the point and assert their rights will get backing from the courts.
If you are intending to pursue a complaint about this when you get back from holiday, then I would recommend that you fire off a letter of complaint in writing now, before you go away.
fiona wrote:
FLight times can be changed to whenver the airlines want. Unfortuantely you the airline are contracted to get you to your destination, but not at a specific time or even date. As long as they get you there.
Not true. Tour operators only have the right to change flight times under certain circumstances. If a tour operator changes the flight times by more than 12 hours, then the law says that customer is entitled to their money back. If a tour operator cancels or makes a major change to holiday arrangements after a customer has paid the final balance (including a change of flight times in excess of 12 hours), then the customer is additionally entitled to compensation.
With respect, if anybody needs to take a reality check, it would seem to be you, Fiona. The only reason tour operators get away with pulling this kind of stunt so often is that customers rarely know their rights and fall for the b****** line that tour operators and travel agents feed them. They know that for every 100 or so customers they treat like this, only a handful are likely to push the issue and take them to court over it, and they are playing the odds. Even if they get sued from time to time and lose, they still wind up massively in pocket.
I just get really annoyed with all these posts to the tone of the same thing.
yes of course we get what we can, of course we change things when we can. We are a business and we are out to make money!
We seem to be veering into reality check territory, again. If I run a business, and I enter into a contract with customers to provide certain goods or services for profit, do I have the right to ignore my customers legal rights whenever I feel like it, should I decide that I'm not turning enough profit? Would you argue that tour operators have the right to change things whenever they like in the interests of profit with regard to the businesses they deal with, who contract to supply them with hotels and transport services, also? Somehow, I don't think so.
A holiday contract is a legally binding document, and as with all contracts, it is legally enforceable on _both_ sides; it is not there just for the convenience of the tour operator. Were a tour operator to be on the recieving end of similar treatment from one of their suppliers, I think it is safe to say that they would be singing a very different tune indeed, and would not hestitate for long before instructing their lawyers.
A holiday is an expensive purchase, and consumers who book many months in advance and put down large amounts of money in deposits have every right to expect to get the holiday package they paid for. As with all businesses, there are laws in place which are designed to protect the interests of consumers, and tour operators and travel agents do not have any special exemption from them. They have to abide by the law in the same way as everybody else, and when they don't, any consumer who chooses to push the point and assert their rights will get backing from the courts.
MrsJ
That was me not Fiona! She just quoted my post.
And my apologies to Fiona and Mods also, quite right to remind us of the form rules.
That was me not Fiona! She just quoted my post.
And my apologies to Fiona and Mods also, quite right to remind us of the form rules.
mrsj thanks very much very well put and i 100% agree with you and im sure this will help a lot of people and is very useful information, im still un sure as to what to do as time is running out, i think i might have to accept the change under protest and sort it out when i return as time is short and i will have to find the costs of yet another holiday as instant holidays/future travel or what ever they like to call themselves are totally refusing any refund at all so it will be a fight on my hands
MrsJ
That was me not Fiona! She just quoted my post.
oops - Sorry. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out, fallenangel, and apols to fiona. Sometimes when people are quoting it can be hard to follow who said what.
im still unsure as to what to do as time is running out
What I would do in your shoes, ellie_meg, assuming you would prefer to have your money back and shop for a holiday elsewhere, is as follows...
Write a letter to the travel agency you booked through now , before you go away, and keep a record of posting it so that they cannot claim at a future date that they didn't recieve it. Make the following points in your letter:
Tell them you are unhappy with the fact that your holiday has been changed at such short notice, and that you feel that both they and the tour operator are in breach of both the Package Travel Regulations and the ABTA code of conduct by refusing to refund your money.
Tell them that you are entitled to receive compensation under consumer law and the ABTA code of conduct for the changes they have made to your holiday, and that you consider them to be in breach of the law and the ABTA code of conduct for not offering you any compensation when they changed your holiday.
Tell them that you feel that their refusal to honour the contract between you and abide by the law governing the sale of package holidays is motivated by the pursuit of profits, and that if they continue to refuse to refund your money and pay you compensation and you have to take them to court for breach of contract at a later date, that you will be asking the courts to award a substantial additional sum in punitive damages for the mental distress and disappointment caused to you by being cheated out of the right to have your money back and purchase an alternative holiday elsewhere.
write at the bottom of your letter, underneath your signature:
copied for information to:
ABTA
Trading Standards
BBC Watchdog
When you have sent your letter, email a copy of your letter with a note at the top saying "for information - your comments are invited" to ABTA, your local trading standards office, and BBC Watchdog.
You should be able to find an email address for your local trading standards office at http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk. the other email addresses are:
ABTA information@abta.co.uk
BBC Watchdog complaint form at http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/contact/holidays.shtml
With luck, hopefully this approach ought to put enough pressure on the travel agent to at least get you your money back, although given their attitude, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for compensation.
Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
mrsj you do know your stuff, the problem i face is the fact that there is only 1 flight a week from birminghan and not many throughout the uk even and it has gone up in price since i booked last aug and ive got an appointment to visit consulate to book my wedding so i cant not go, if i accept under protest would i be able to do anything when i got home, its a nightmare really, if i had a lot of choice of other flights or even it wasnt to sort out wedding without doubt i would cancel, but ive got to go there that week grrrr !!!!!
From what you say, it sounds like you are pretty much stuck with accepting the changes.
Yes, you would. You would have the right to pursue the travel agent and tour operator for damages for breach of contract, and the distress and disappointment caused by not getting the holiday you had booked.
However, it would be wise to start the ball rolling with your complaint now and tell them that you are accepting the holiday changes under protest before you go, rather than waiting till after you come back. Make it clear when you write to them that you consider that they have breached the contract and that you are expecting to be compensated by them for this. Point out to them that had you opted to change or cancel the holiday at such a late stage, that they would have pocketed some or all of the money you had paid for your holiday to compensate them for the inconvenience, and that it cuts both ways.
Many tour operators specify a time limit for making complaints within their brochure conditions (often 28 days), and they will do their best to wriggle out of liability if a complaint is made about something (in your case, the flight changes) after this time period has expired. To avoid falling foul of this kind of thing, you really need to get your complaint in now.
When writing into complain about the changes to your holiday and ask for compensation, put the words "Without Prejudice" at the top of your letter. In legal terms, this means that you are reserving the right to ask for more compensation should you have any other cause for dissatisfaction about your holiday at a later date. (lets keep our fingers crossed you won't!!!)
if i accept under protest would i be able to do anything when i got home
Yes, you would. You would have the right to pursue the travel agent and tour operator for damages for breach of contract, and the distress and disappointment caused by not getting the holiday you had booked.
However, it would be wise to start the ball rolling with your complaint now and tell them that you are accepting the holiday changes under protest before you go, rather than waiting till after you come back. Make it clear when you write to them that you consider that they have breached the contract and that you are expecting to be compensated by them for this. Point out to them that had you opted to change or cancel the holiday at such a late stage, that they would have pocketed some or all of the money you had paid for your holiday to compensate them for the inconvenience, and that it cuts both ways.
Many tour operators specify a time limit for making complaints within their brochure conditions (often 28 days), and they will do their best to wriggle out of liability if a complaint is made about something (in your case, the flight changes) after this time period has expired. To avoid falling foul of this kind of thing, you really need to get your complaint in now.
When writing into complain about the changes to your holiday and ask for compensation, put the words "Without Prejudice" at the top of your letter. In legal terms, this means that you are reserving the right to ask for more compensation should you have any other cause for dissatisfaction about your holiday at a later date. (lets keep our fingers crossed you won't!!!)
mrsj thanks so much for all your help, like you say i really dont have a lot of choice about it and not knowing what this hotel will be like when we get there, i will write this letter to them today and send it recorded delivery thanks
oh no diane has just rang me from turkey saying the hotel isnt very nice barely a 4 star, beach is a concrete slab, food nothing special area not very nice ,stains on the carpet, but the one we were supposed to be in is definately closed but looked lovely and was in a nice area, she ran out of credit to tell me any more im gutted now, better take my video camera with me then gulp !!!!
Post a Reply
Please sign in or register an account to reply to this post.
Similar Topics
-
Thomas Cook - Changed my hotel 8 days before we go
Posted by Daal43 in Holiday Complaints
-
Accommodation just been changed with 4 days notice!!
Posted by sonias in Spain - Balearics - Menorca Discussion Forum
-
THEY CHANGED OUR HOTEL...I was/was not happy
Posted by TWEETIE PIE in General Holiday Enquiries, Hints and Tips
-
Hotel changed on arrival
Posted by Nels in Holiday Complaints
-
Re: Changed Hotel and Resort!!
Posted by colin160174 in Holiday Complaints